Is this guy smoking something or is he on to something?

[TSandM]

We ARE doing it, Jax. Seattle has well publicized "Tweak" dives on Wednesday, at which anyone is welcome. I know they're doing the same thing in Southern California. Various shops or instructors hold GUE experience days, and provide equipment for folks to try and rent pool time and often even have videographers, if folks want to see what they look like.

I personally reach out to anyone here on SB who expresses curiosity about the system. I offer to answer questions, and try to figure out if I know or can find anyone local to them that they can connect with, to see how the system works. I do that personally, as often as I can, for divers in our local area.

On ScubaBoard, I have policed rudeness in the DIR subforums, but also by professed DIR divers in the open forums. I have written PMs and edited posts and even put people on vacation for rudeness. Often, it's not "DIR vs. the world", but rather high-spirited and young people who get a kick out of posting outrageous things to get a rise out of others -- and THAT is not at all unique to the SB DIR community! Had I seen the post ScubaSteve refers to, it would have been edited, and the poster would have gotten a sternly worded PM from me, referring to the flies, honey and vinegar concept.

Look at the GUE and UTD instructors who volunteer THEIR time here, writing answers to people's questions, and offering resources.

We ARE doing it. And the vast majority of us are nice folks, who have simply found a way to dive that works for us, and want to share it with those who are interested.

I don't care how you dive, as long as you are happy with it. I may not assess risks the way you do, and may not want to do the dives you do the way you do them, but you are welcome to do it. And split fins aren't the deal breaker, either, and you can wear whatever colors you like

 

[Teamcasa]

...When was the last time any of you EVER saw a DIR person go into the solo forum and behave like that?

Perception is everything. People who ask a sincere, gear related question in other forums get the almost automatic "get a BP/W", "use a long hose", "poodle jacket", "split-fin", "ankle weights" response and it is perceived as coming from DIR divers dropping in on the recreational forums giving DIR/technical answers to recreational questions. I know it's not true 100% of the time but each time it does happen the rift grows just a notch wider.

 

[David_57]

I think one of the things I am coming away with from this thread is, not all DIR divers are self righteous a-holes maybe some of ones I have bumped into in my area, its good to know as we tend to tar everyone with the same brush.

 

[kanonfodr]

Y'know, if one were to change "DIR" to "Harley Davidson" and "non-DIR" to "rice burners", this is a very familiar argument . . .

Harley Davidson (& their riders) turned around its negative reputation by a concentrated effort of community reach-out and establishment of annual events in which tolerance and friendliness is mandated. The PR campaign has not only promoted the Harley riding community as a whole, but promoted a stronger bond between all motorcyclists.

Any chance something like that could be done in the DIR community?

Sure, as soon as all the Harley riders put a helmet on and learn how to ride

Spoiler

I actually have nothing against HD, and bad examples of motorcyclists exist across all brands and types. I'm one of those "Ricer" kids

Sorry Jax bad example HD riders although not all; are renowned for looking down their collective noses at anything not Harley hence the term Jap Scrap, Rice Burner, etc.

And most riders who look down their noses are the ones who spent way too much money on way too much motorcycle, and ride like crap because of it. Yet they are the greatest thing on 2 wheels, if you listen to them. It goes back to my statement previously about elite persons and groups generally being the most humble and quiet folks out there.

In response, I'll go back to two of my previous statements:

How much effort do you think that a diver who subscribes to the DIR philosophy should spend trying to convince someone who just doesn't want to get it why it's a good idea?

The other edge to that sword, is that once people start putting more effort into educating about the benefits to people that really just want to argue about it, then they get called zealots.

Where is the upside?

CD brings up a great point. I refuse to push kool-aid on any dive buddy and instead try to be a model of a proficient diver: those who notice and want the skills will ask, those who don't care and just want to blow bubbles and look at pretty fish won't notice and you won't have to waste your time.

That is, of course, if I am being a good "model" .

Peace,
Greg

 

[Jax]

How much effort do you think that a diver who subscribes to the DIR philosophy should spend trying to convince someone who just doesn't want to get it why it's a good idea?

The other edge to that sword, is that once people start putting more effort into educating about the benefits to people that really just want to argue about it, then they get called zealots.

Where is the upside?

But that is the point . . . one shouldn't!

If the DIR community would start within itself to establish that DIR practitioners are ambassadors of the philosophy, and as some instructors have explicitly told their students, "Don't assume an elitist attitude, but promote [DIR] by your example and behavior.", and then encourage and welcome questions by others . . . [TSandM is a wonderful example!]

What doesn't work is defensive behavior, telling others what is wrong with their way of diving or gear choice or point of view, and especially challenging others' viewpoint instead of promoting understanding. One "where do you come up with that?" knocks out a dozen "I like this way because . . ."

Edit: Wow, I'm writing too slow . . . . TSandM is definitely the epitome of a DIR practitioner! I'm looking forward to heading West some day.

 

[rjack321]

Perception is everything. People who ask a sincere, gear related question in other forums get the almost automatic "get a BP/W", "use a long hose", "poodle jacket", "split-fin", "ankle weights" response and it is perceived as coming from DIR divers dropping in on the recreational forums giving DIR/technical answers to recreational questions. I know it's not true 100% of the time but each time it does happen the rift grows just a notch wider.

Apparently you think recommending something which happens to be used by DIR divers = DIR. Which I can tell you is not the case; we have thousands more backplates in the PNW than we have "DIR practitioners". In fact I think backplate users here in the PNW may exceed jacket BC users, at least amongst regular divers. So recommending a backplate is pretty ho-hum "recreational" ordinary around here.

I also know quite a few recreational (<100ft, non-cave) divers who were thrilled to finally get rid of they dynamic weight they had to move with every fin kick (on their ankles). With the reduced work, gas consumption improved too so they were double happy.

 

[Cave Diver]

But that is the point . . . one shouldn't!

If the DIR community would start within itself to establish that DIR practitioners are ambassadors of the philosophy, and as some instructors have explicitly told their students, "Don't assume an elitist attitude, but promote [DIR] by your example and behavior.", and then encourage and welcome questions by others . . . [TSandM is a wonderful example!]

Here's your answer:

Perception is everything. People who ask a sincere, gear related question in other forums get the almost automatic "get a BP/W", "use a long hose", "poodle jacket", "split-fin", "ankle weights" response and it is perceived as coming from DIR divers dropping in on the recreational forums giving DIR/technical answers to recreational questions. I know it's not true 100% of the time but each time it does happen the rift grows just a notch wider.

Apparently you think recommending something which happens to be used by DIR divers = DIR. Which I can tell you is not the case; we have thousands more backplates in the PNW than we have "DIR practitioners". In fact I think backplate users here in the PNW may exceed jacket BC users, at least amongst regular divers. So recommending a backplate is pretty ho-hum "recreational" ordinary around here.

A lot of the things that people attribute to DIR divers aren't coming from DIR divers!

How exactly is DIR supposed to get people who have never taken a course to pass along the correct viewpoint and "become ambassadors?"

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Have an idea how about starting a a dive philosophy called Doing It Wrong ("DIW") for all us strokes

My dive philosophy is that it doesn't matter if you're DIR, DIW, DIY, or DICE ... just as long as you're not a DICK ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[ScubaSteve]

The Scuba Police is as right an answer for this as it is for stopping those who break depth limits or other "rules".

 

[EastTNDiver]

Sorry Jax bad example HD riders although not all; are renowned for looking down their collective noses at anything not Harley hence the term Jap Scrap, Rice Burner, etc.

Boy...ain't that the truth! The thing Jax speaks of occurred more at the corporate level in an attempt to take the "edge" off and appeal to a broader audience. However, many of the individual riders behave exactly as you describe. That's not to say those individuals make up the majority of riders, but they do tend to be the loudest, hence the perception you posted. I ride a Harley, have ridden bikes of many brands in my 40+ years on motorcycles, and I get absolutely sick of all the petty chest thumping. However, much like I suspect with DIR and diving, most of the Harley chest thumpers I've encountered have been online.

The thing is, there are insecure people in all walks of life. Many of them choose to define themselves externally, and will latch onto a brand, club, segment of activity, etc. that will allow them an elevated perception of themselves...a feeling of superiority to others. When I see someone spouting off about "Jap crap", "rice burners", etc. I just figure I've encountered one such insecure individual. I feel the same when I see divers throwing out terms such as "stroke", and belittling others for not choosing their style of diving...regardless of which side of the DIR/non-DIR fence they're on.