Is this guy smoking something or is he on to something?

[dbulmer]

Cavediver,
You're being harsh.

GUE have spent a lot of time and effort trying to make sure that their view of diving is articulated accurately. I don't think they would have done this if they had felt it wasn't worth doing.

Having said that, I agree that there are people who would miscontrue any message ie water is wet, night follows day etc.

It's sad really but c'est la vie

 

[PfcAJ]

If so, from whence does this misinformation come?

In any communications, "to the sender lies the responsibility the correct message is received." How is it that DIR can be so misunderstood, if one tenet of the activity is standardization of the what and why?

Did you read the article that is the subject of this thread? There is a huge difference between knowledge and belief. This author believes a lot about what DIR is and isn't, but anyone who takes some time can see that he really doesn't know much about it.

People, with astonishing regularity, propagate misinformation. The author of this article either a) doesn't know what he's talking about in regards to DIR and/or b) knows about it, but chooses to make false arguments. This article is a prime example of where the misinformation comes from.

Just take a look at the discussions on Scubaboard about DIR. How often do we see references to "gear nazis", "religious zealots", and how "DIR strips divers of their freedom"? No one is forcing anyone to dive DIR, use an octo, wear a snorkel, dive from a boat, or breath trimix. Its ALL choice. I choose to dive DIR, just like many others choose to wear a snorkel on their dives. My PERSONAL PREFERENCE is to dive with a standard kit, with similarly trained and skilled buddies.

I think if people took the time to actually learn a bit about what DIR is and isn't, then we could move away from all those negative terms and stereotypes. Unfortunately, as long as people keep believing and not knowing, we won't have that.

 

[Cave Diver]

Having said that, I agree that there are people who would miscontrue any message ie water is wet, night follows day etc.

It's sad really but c'est la vie

That's pretty much my point.

 

[Jax]

Did you read the article that is the subject of this thread? There is a huge difference between knowledge and belief. This author believes a lot about what DIR is and isn't, but anyone who takes some time can see that he really doesn't know much about it.

People, with astonishing regularity, propagate misinformation. The author of this article either a) doesn't know what he's talking about in regards to DIR and/or b) knows about it, but chooses to make false arguments. This article is a prime example of where the misinformation comes from.

Just take a look at the discussions on Scubaboard about DIR. How often do we see references to "gear nazis", "religious zealots", and how "DIR strips divers of their freedom"? No one is forcing anyone to dive DIR, use an octo, wear a snorkel, dive from a boat, or breath trimix. Its ALL choice. I choose to dive DIR, just like many others choose to wear a snorkel on their dives. My PERSONAL PREFERENCE is to dive with a standard kit, with similarly trained and skilled buddies.

I think if people took the time to actually learn a bit about what DIR is and isn't, then we could move away from all those negative terms and stereotypes. Unfortunately, as long as people keep believing and not knowing, we won't have that.

Yes, the OP's article was definitely one of arguing by emotion. He clearly had DIR stuck in his craw.

In a general sense, though, there are two camps -- people that perceive the DIR diver as arrogant and judgmental, and others that say DIR makes one more comfortable and safe and therefore much more fun. It seems there are those that quietly promote the DIR diving by setting a good example and encouraging questions. Then there is the other side that mocks, jeers, puts-down, and says, "you don't get it". How did this become such a house divided? Is there a move afoot to re-establish a positive reputation, or is it indeed that some DIR practitioners just don't care?

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Yes, the OP's article was definitely one of arguing by emotion. He clearly had DIR stuck in his craw.

Locally we have folks who believe exactly as Mr. Ellyat does. And without exception they are people who know absolutely nothing about DIR beyond the emotional reaction to the name, and some perceptions based on "some guy in a black drysuit was once mean to me".

I once had the pleasure of one of the area's most long-term instructors getting in my face at a DUI DOG-Day event and start screaming about "You DIR Nazis ... yadda yadda ...". The guy knew nothing about me at the time except that he saw me with a backplate and long hose ... and he had overheard me explaining something about the setup to someone who had asked my opinion about it. His opinion was that it was "tech sh!t" and had no purpose in a recreational diving environment. He's entitled to that opinion ... but common sense would dictate that if he doesn't want others judging his personal choices, then he shouldn't be so judgmental about mine.

But it's usually the case that people who complain the loudest about "DIR Nazis" will be the ones who need little to no real reason to condemn anyone who chooses to dive that way.

In a general sense, though, there are two camps -- people that perceive the DIR diver as arrogant and judgmental, and others that say DIR makes one more comfortable and safe and therefore much more fun. It seems there are those that quietly promote the DIR diving by setting a good example and encouraging questions. Then there is the other side that mocks, jeers, puts-down, and says, "you don't get it". How did this become such a house divided? Is there a move afoot to re-establish a positive reputation, or is it indeed that some DIR practitioners just don't care?

You get that to some degree in every human endeavor ... particularly recreational activities. It usually boils down to one of two reasons ... money or ego. Those with a vested interest in doing things a certain way (i.e. shop owners and employees) will denigrate anyone who does it a different way. Those who have invested a lot of time and money learning to do things a certain way will rationalize their choices by believing that someone choosing a different path is wrong. Those who believe themselves "expert" at a given activity will have very strong opinions about how it should be done.

Sometimes those opinions can be entertaining ... on rare occasions they might even be enlightening ... but most times, they're just worth ignoring.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Cave Diver]

"some guy in a black drysuit was once mean to me".

I've seen that typed almost verbatim several times here on the board.

 

[TSandM]

On many subjects (a number of them listed in the article that sparked this thread) people hold very different opinions. Since there is almost never any kind of scientific study of failures or incidents or risks involved in differing equipment, gases or practices in scuba diving, those opinions are often either based on an individual's personal experience (for example, my distaste for rock boots) or on their visualization of how something could or would work in a given situation. How attached someone is to his opinions is often largely a matter of personality, and so is how vocal he is with them. We all know people who are "know-it-alls", and can't wait to give you the benefit of their convictions, whether you have any desire to hear them or not. It's not just in diving

For good or ill (and there is nothing anyone can do to change it now) George Irvine was an outspoken proponent of DIR diving in the early days. George was noisy and so far beyond tactless that I don't really have a word for what he was -- reading some of his rants, it is easy to see how he could be roundly disliked, and the entire system he was representing tarred with the same brush. In addition, I would be quite surprised if there weren't adherents who patterned their behavior off his, feeling that their "superior" training and skills entitled them to be dismissive and unpleasant to anyone without them. And the technical diving world tends to be one heavy on testosterone anyway . . .

But if you step beyond GI3, and read some of Jarrod's essays, you find a much more thoughtful and restrained presentation. And the instructor corps of GUE does not (or at least none of the ones I've encountered do) run around bad-mouthing the rest of the diving world. And in at least a couple of my classes, we were specifically warned against developing an elitist attitude. But the stigma remains, especially in the minds of those who have never actually attended a class or even had a quiet discussion over a glass of wine with someone who uses the system.

I remember my first encounter with the idea of "DIR". I had gone on a dive with a woman who showed me spring straps on her fins. I thought they were cool. (This woman was not by any means, at all, a DIR diver. She just had spring straps.) I went to my LDS and mentioned them, and the lead instructor blew up at me, and said, "Yeah, she dives with those DIR jerks. Why anybody thinks a system that developed to explore a single cave system in Florida works for open water diving is beyond me." Which led me to go look up DIR and Florida cave diving and start reading . . . everything I read made sense, and eventually, here I am, using that stupid system on a regular basis to do Puget Sound OW dives (where it works quite nicely, actually). Neither the instructor who was ranting, nor the shop owner, who has repeated the rant over the years, has any particularly good reasons why DIR is so offensive to them -- except that one of the central proponents of it locally for a long time was someone nobody liked for his arrogance and air of superiority. Seeing a theme here? One bad apple poisons the whole barrel.

 

[Cave Diver]

For good or ill (and there is nothing anyone can do to change it now) George Irvine was an outspoken proponent of DIR diving in the early days. George was noisy and so far beyond tactless that I don't really have a word for what he was -- reading some of his rants, it is easy to see how he could be roundly disliked, and the entire system he was representing tarred with the same brush.

I went to my LDS and mentioned them, and the lead instructor blew up at me, and said, "Yeah, she dives with those DIR jerks. Why anybody thinks a system that developed to explore a single cave system in Florida works for open water diving is beyond me." Which led me to go look up DIR and Florida cave diving and start reading . . . everything I read made sense, and eventually, here I am, using that stupid system on a regular basis to do Puget Sound OW dives (where it works quite nicely, actually). Neither the instructor who was ranting, nor the shop owner, who has repeated the rant over the years, has any particularly good reasons why DIR is so offensive to them -- except that one of the central proponents of it locally for a long time was someone nobody liked for his arrogance and air of superiority. Seeing a theme here? One bad apple poisons the whole barrel.

It's funny you say that about the instructor. For me, it was reading some of George's rants that made me think "who the hell does this guy think he is??" So I decided to find out, and the more I read, the more sense it made.

 

[Teamcasa]

People are passionate and passionate people tend to argue their point of view with a great deal vigor. The problem people are the ones that have no respect for your point of view. The, we are right, you are wrong crowd. Fortunately, it's a very very, small crowd.
Frankly, I have dived with many DIR/GUE/Tech or whatever divers. All (save one or two) were excellent divers and genially very nice and pleasant people in person.
I do have a great deal of respect for those who choose to get better trained, buy the proper gear for where they dive and take the effort to actually improve their diving skills. I have little respect for those who belittle and berate others for their choice in diving style.

 

[divad]

If so, from whence does this misinformation come?
QUOTE]


From from-where. Or is it from-from where?