Is this guy smoking something or is he on to something?

[dumpsterDiver]

Speaking for myself here ... yes, it applies in that case too. And there's been a few times when I have made my feelings known to DIR folks who speak about things they've never experienced.

I don't dive deep air. The reason is because I did a dive to 154 feet on air, and got so bloody narced I couldn't think straight.

So I choose not to do it again.

Your choices are your business. I won't tell you that you're wrong for making a different choice than me. It might, however, affect my decision to accompany you on a deep dive ... but that's my choice to make ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

OK but I try not to say STFU to anyone

 

[David_57]

No never tried DIR and to be honest I have no wish to do so at this time, and note I did mention there are exceptions (TS & M could be one of them). I guess I based my statements on what I have heard and read (one thread in particular on this board) and seen first hand like I said there are exceptions I have couple of dive acquaintances that took Tech1 to see what all the fuss was about and they did say the training was very good, but also did not agree with many of the statements that were made during their course especially equipment related.

In addition I have seen posts by DIR types mocking Bungied wings, split fins, chiming in on me when I posted a question regarding Ginnie Springs stating that I was trying to dive outside of my training; because I asked if there was any point visiting Ginnie if I did not have cavern or a cave cert etc etc.

And yes I do realize I have only met a handful and there are probably many more DIR types that are very nice folks.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

OK but I try not to say STFU to anyone

... I'm trying hard not to say it in this thread ...

Everyone's entitled to their opinion. It makes for better conversation when those opinions have some real information to back them up.

As PfcAJ pointed out, there's some misinformation posted in this thread ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Jax]

There is so much misinformation about DIR, what it is, and why people do it. Sigh...

If so, from whence does this misinformation come?

In any communications, "to the sender lies the responsibility the correct message is received." How is it that DIR can be so misunderstood, if one tenet of the activity is standardization of the what and why?

 

[TSandM]

I am not denigrating the training that is offered - and especially by the GUE folks - it's awesome, but we live in different worlds and for somebody to tell me that the way I dive is wrong because I don't have xyz brand of equipment or don't use some particular finning technique is just a bit silly. And - sorry, but I get this a lot. Of my friends and colleagues I can count 7 DIR divers who have rejected the general philosophy, but are also huge fans of the GUE training.

You know, I have to sigh and shake my head a little when I read something like this.

I just had the very pleasant experience of getting to dive with two of the original "DIR" divers -- Dan Volker, who traveled around with GI3 doing DIR demos and promoting the system, and Bill Mee, who was involved in some of the original big WKPP dives. Both are very nice people. Both were diving single tank setups, and Dan dives these huge free-diving fins when he does OW, and primarily flutter kicks. In the environment where he is diving, these things work perfectly, and there is nothing "un-DIR" about them. And I enjoyed listening to the two men chuckling about the silliness of the entire group of divers on the trip struggling through the weekend in doubles, when all the dives were perfectly appropriate for an adequately-sized single tank.

I know of no one in my acquaintance who will say the way someone else is diving is wrong, so long as it is safe. And I'd agree that you don't NEED pinpoint buoyancy control in midwater under task-loading to do the average reef dive. But it does make them more fun . . . and probably makes things a bit safer, if you have problems to manage.

And, like Bob, I dive a very minimal backplate/long hose setup for tropical water, and love it. And I sometimes dive doubles in the tropics, too -- hard to spend twenty minutes down among the big sea fans off the Big Brother (140 fsw) without them!

 

[Cave Diver]

In any communications, "to the sender lies the responsibility the correct message is received."

:bs:

Some people are going to hear what they want to hear and interpret it the way they want to regardless of how clear the message is made to them.

 

[Jax]

:bs:

Some people are going to hear what they want to hear and interpret it the way they want to regardless of how clear the message is made to them.

The quote does not apply to attitude, John. Sun Tzu had a wonderful way of dealing with the attitude. But first, he made absolutely sure that the correct message was received.

Montgomery practiced some of the same when he went to every combat brigade in his Army before the Battle of El Alamein, to insure his plan and objectives was correctly received.

And it is still used in corporate America today.

So, back on topic, with all these people have differing viewpoints, how does does a reputation develop? What message is being sent?

 

[Cave Diver]

The quote does not apply to attitude, John. Sun Tzu had a wonderful way of dealing with the attitude. But first, he made absolutely sure that the correct message was received.

Maybe you have some insight on how three people sitting in the same classroom listening to the same instructor can come away with three completely different messages? Different people are going to take different things away from it, even when they hear the same message.

Maybe we should get Sun Tzu to teach DIR classes?

 

[Jax]

I'm not sure why you would narrow this thread to a classroom situation . . . .

As per several inputs in this thread, people see two sides of DIR practitioners. The ones as described below, and others that simply dive to the DIR standards, without standing in judgment of others, without being ugly about others gear. Does the DIR community see this as an issue? Or are they okay with their reputation? What is the correct DIR message?

I have looked at SCUBA in general much the same way I have everything else I do. I take advice from the experts and take some things as what they tell me even when I internally, but quietly, question some of the validity. I always want to know "why" and "how". Sometimes the "why" just doesnt make sense to me and I still listen - but doubt the validity.


In everything I have read - and experienced - SO FAR, I agree with everything he has on that webpage. Everything. Funny - except for the fact that I am not as qualified and still reserve judgement until I am more qualified - I could have almost written that word for word


Now - I am open to the fact that I am still learning and will likely change my opinions and understand more as time goes on.

I enjoyed reading this - for various reasons - but I will start off by saying that I know a number of divers who started off on the DIR route and have long since abandoned it as mostly, male cow poop.

My beef with the DIR posse has always been that those who believe they are Doing It Right treat their philosophy as if it were gospel and therefore all other diving that is not DIR must logically be Doing It Wrong. The analogy between DIR diving and religion is apt - we have the right faith, and everybody else is to be condemned as unrighteous and unworthy, and we must convert them to our way of thinking.

There are some types of diving where certain techniques, equipment configurations and gas mixtures are not only correct, but essential - and that's great. Diving though deep caves where the margin for error is so much slimmer than floating about with the fish in warm tropical water requires a great deal more control and just like a cave diver would be horrified if an AOW certified diver on a single air tank tried to do what they do - I also have to admit to a loud underwater guffaw when I see DIR-style divers attempting a basic tropical recreational dive all fully geared out in what is next-to-useless equipment.

Like any activity, the only way you can Do It Right is to take the best advice from as many different sources as you can, learn from your experiences, and figure out what is Right For You. Proselytising egomaniacs serve only themselves.

pfft pfft my two bar

C.

Where I live the DIR crowd are very ..... er ..... "strict" in their interpretation of what's right and wrong and very "narrow" in their interpretation of proper diving practices.

I know DIR is supposed to be a "learning" philosophy that is constantly in search of best practices but the fact of the matter is.. it has become badly distanced from that goal by people who misunderstand the foundations!

In my local area, DIR is about "conformance"... about narrowing of perspective... about "intolerance", "arrogance" and "ego"..... and least of all about sharing best practices.

It also means that the "best" divers among the local crowd want little or nothing to do with the DIR scene and even have some aversion to it. I guess that's similar to how Mark E. experiences the DIR scene in his local area.

R..

 

[Cave Diver]

I'm not sure why you would narrow this thread to a classroom situation . . . .

Because that was the easiest example to show that different people listening to the same message are going to interpret it differently. It's called individualism.

BTW, any idea how many of those three examples you just listed have actually taken a DIR class to get "the message?"