backplate and wing for GUE courses

[DiveLikeAMuppet]

I have Xdeep Hydros with 50lb lift for cold water diving (cold water means 6-7 degrees Celsius / 45 Fahrenheit, so not ridiculously cold). You can get the “DIR” version of the harness that has no buckles, single piece webbing. Definitely GUE-compatible - passed Fundies and C1/C2 in the rig. It’s about right for a steel 2x12l, few stages and thick undersuit, a bit over capacity for ali80 doubles.

For a single cylinder steel 15l, Zeos 40 lbs with a single tank adapter was perfect. Same backplate. You could get away with 30lbs in warm water.

It might be worth looking at Tecline which tends to be cheaper (both Polish) or DGX (better prices in the US?) XDeep is priced as a premium brand outside of Europe.

If you are heading the GUE/DIR diving, I would look at doubles and a drysuit too… it’s a game changer. Drysuit will let you dive all year round and will serve as a backup buoyancy if your wing fails.

 

[HamTrainChickenLaser]

Remember you don't necessarily need the same amount of lift as the weight you are carrying, just the amount of lift that you'll lose over the dive. So the worst time in a thick wetsuit is at the beginning of the dive when you are at max depth. At that point you have the most weight of gas, and the least lift from your suit.

If you need 14 lbs with no suit (ignoring the buoyancy +/- of the aqualung bc), that weight requirement will be the same at all depths. So if the 28-30 lbs is correct, you need to compensate for about 15 lbs for the suit. A 8/7mm semi dry will lose considerable buoyancy at depth (assuming 130' max), but it won't be zero. So you are probably looking at a max of 12 lbs plus gas weight of 4-6 lbs, so call it 20 lbs of lift in a worse case scenario.

All of that is assuming you are NOT over weighted. Bigger than needed wings do come with considerable downsides. It's never free lift just in case, you have to deal with all that extra space on every dive.

A 30 lb wing should be fine, and would give you plenty of lift to keep your head out of the water at the beginning of the dive too.

OK this is a lot to unpack and raises some questions. One of the biggest is what is the downside to a 40lb wing if I only "need" a 30lb? I mean, I get that a bigger wing is technically more drag but it seems like that would be minimal. I was reading something about how one manufacturer (was it Deep6?) dropped the 20lb wing from their lineup because the 30lb was only very slightly wider. Now of course that means that it gets the lift from somewhere- maybe extra thickness or whatnot. But all things considered, is a 40lb wing with 30lbs worth of gas in it that much of a drag in the water?

I tend not to believe what I hear from scuba retailers because they depend on selling gear. I am just not sure what this guy had to gain by telling me that I should go with a 40lb wing. I mean he had all sizes and could have just as easily told me 30lbs. On another note, if a 40lb wing isn't right for a big guy in a really thick wetsuit diving cold water, who would it be for? It's a singles wing- it's not made for a twinset or sidemount. Oh and for the sake of argument let's assume (because this is the case) that the person who told me this has decades of experience teaching cold water diving and DIR style.

In the end this is just a math problem, right? I mean- either the math supports a 40lb wing or it doesn't.

The point on suit compression is an excellent one, and my brain always goes back to the FlowState Divers video on buoyancy that says the only point of the air in your wing is to offset the weight of the gas as it changes during the dive. But that's clearly leaving out an important component!!

 

[HamTrainChickenLaser]

I have Xdeep Hydros with 50lb lift for cold water diving (cold water means 6-7 degrees Celsius / 45 Fahrenheit, so not ridiculously cold). You can get the “DIR” version of the harness that has no buckles, single piece webbing. Definitely GUE-compatible - passed Fundies and C1/C2 in the rig. It’s about right for a steel 2x12l, few stages and thick undersuit, a bit over capacity for ali80 doubles.

For a single cylinder steel 15l, Zeos 40 lbs with a single tank adapter was perfect. Same backplate. You could get away with 30lbs in warm water.

It might be worth looking at Tecline which tends to be cheaper (both Polish) or DGX (better prices in the US?) XDeep is priced as a premium brand outside of Europe.

If you are heading the GUE/DIR diving, I would look at doubles and a drysuit too… it’s a game changer. Drysuit will let you dive all year round and will serve as a backup buoyancy if your wing fails.

I don't see Tecline at all among the major online retailers in the states, and I've never seen their products in the dozen or so bricks and mortar shops that I've visited. I guess that's the reason I was looking at Xdeep.

No drysuit for now- my spouse is saying that I spend "too much money on diving" but I don't really think that is even a thing, is it?

I don't know if I am really heading in the GUE direction but I do want to try a course and see what I think of it. I want a bp/w anyhow so that is really not an added expense for me. The only reason I ended up with that Aqualung rec bcd is that I found it dirt, dirt cheap and it was 5lbs and super easy to carry on dive trips to warm locations.

 

[HamTrainChickenLaser]

OK it looks like I've figured something out. Thank you DiveLikeAMuppet for telling me that this is available with or without the plastic buckles, that encouraged me to go look again. It turns out that the one I posted before was the "deluxe" model Xdeep ZEOS, and what I want is the "standard":

38 lbs of lift. This might be perfect for me??

Anyone have a coupon code for 10% off? Doesn't hurt to ask, right??

Another funny issue- when you go to the tecline website and try to search for USA dealers- there aren't any. Looks like Mexico has one though.

 

[tursiops]

The point on suit compression is an excellent one, and my brain always goes back to the FlowState Divers video on buoyancy that says the only point of the air in your wing is to offset the weight of the gas as it changes during the dive. But that's clearly leaving out an important component!!

Bingo. Notice the drysuit in their videos. And bare hands. it is NOT cold water! Uncurated videos on YouTube can be helpful, or misleading.

 

[noserider]

You might want to look at sourcing from Europe as even with the import duty that all US consumers will have to pay it could still be cheaper.

xDeep Zeos 38 Standard stainless steel backplate M weight pockets Wing Black| Diveinn

Get xDeep Zeos 38 Standard stainless steel backplate M weight pockets in Black for 437.99 €. Ideal for dive with fast delivery. Buy Vests at Diveinn!

www.tradeinn.com

 

[HamTrainChickenLaser]

You might want to look at sourcing from Europe as even with the import duty that all US consumers will have to pay it could still be cheaper.

xDeep Zeos 38 Standard stainless steel backplate M weight pockets Wing Black| Diveinn

Get xDeep Zeos 38 Standard stainless steel backplate M weight pockets in Black for 437.99 €. Ideal for dive with fast delivery. Buy Vests at Diveinn!

www.tradeinn.com

Look at the red print that comes up when I access that site from the states:

 

[noserider]

ahh - we do not get that in Europe

 

[Ontwreckdiver]

It seems like every time I think I've found an alternative like this ZEOS, I then realize that they have plastic buckles in the middle of the webbing. Surely it is cheaper to make those straps continuous than to put the plastic buckles in there- so why doesn't a company like Xdeep offer this option? Is GUE/DIR just such a tiny niche market that it's not on their radar, or it is but it won't sell enough product to make any difference? I was almost ready to pull the trigger when I noticed the buckle

Look at the Sub Gravity Paragon single tank system. Their adjustable harness is clean/ simple and no plastic parts. I love mine.

Paragon Single Tank Package - SubGravity

We understand what the active diver needs from a single tank rig. Simple, streamlined, balanced, and easy to travel. We built the Paragon single tank package to offer a modular and customizable BCD to best suit single tank diving needs. At the heart of the Paragon Single Tank Package is the...

sub-gravity.com

Adjustable Harness System - SubGravity

Simple but adjustable Harness designed to be used in conjunction with a backplate. The steel QR plates replace traditional plastic buckles, allowing for the same ease of adjustment and removal, without the risk of breaking seen in plastic. A single D ring on each shoulder strap and one D ring on...

sub-gravity.com

 

[Ontwreckdiver]

Not sure you need a 40# wing?

Any premade adjustable harness will be full of plastic Fastex buckles and other nonsense.

No true. I have the Sub Gravity adjustable harness and it doesn't have any of that nonsense. It's clean/simple and no plastic parts. Adjustable Harness System - SubGravity