Is there a theft risk at Buddy Dive???

[gypsyjim]

Or maybe it's just a way of tenderizing the burgers?

 

[pilot fish]

There is no way to protect against those types of crimes, gas stolen, tires stolen, batteries ripped off, etc. To suggest it is somehow the victims fault is asinine.

Again, you appear to be blaming the divers. What do you suggest we do for the gas thefts? What about tire thefts? What would you do if one of these happened and you didn't have your wallet to pay the tow truck? What would you do if you didn't have your drivers license and passport and you got in a wreck? What would you do if you had an innocent run in with the police and you didn't have your passport? What about stolen glasses and you can't drive?
Read the article I mentioned and then tell me what you think.

 

[pilot fish]

I'm very impressed with your credentials and travel. It woud appear you know what you are talking about and are able to make informed and accurate comparisnos to places over the world, unlike some Bonaire fanatics.

Oh so now the hotel association as well as the divers are all liars. Maybe you should read a few things including other people's opinions and observations and consider them in addition to your own. They might be right.
You obviously haven't traveled to many remote third world countries. I've been stopped for walking down the street, driving down the street and for being on a dive boat before. You never know.
I'm not sure about Bonaire, but in many countries you must have your passport on you at all times (in all honesty, a copy will do).
I always have my credit card (not usable on many islands) and my wallet with local currency and I lock them in the glove box if I'm on the road. I've never had a problem on Bonaire or any other island but it appears others have. I believe them.
I'm not sure what you mean by living life. I think I have. I worked for 40 years. I'm now enjoying life diving around the world. I had the privilege of working in the dive industry on a liveaboard and then at a resort in Roatan and another in Truk Lagoon. That's what I call living. I have well over a thousand dives and visits to dozens of national parks in the US and Canada. That's what I call living. I've visited more than 20 different countries and have been diving in nearly all of them. I've met some terrific people in the most unexpected places in the world. That's what I call living. I became a dive master and then instructor at age 62. Now that's really living.

 

[pilot fish]

Since you are a former cop, could you tell us, in your professional opinion, are the cops on Bonaire doing a respectable job, could they improve things to make it safer i.e., set up stings, survelliance, post guards etc,security cameras, etc?

If the police on Bonaire do not enjoy crime on Bonaire, why don't they take steps to curtail it?

I have been reading the Bonaire crime posts for years without comment; but I must ask: Do any of you guys actually speak to the police on the island?

I do, although I have never experienced any crime. through my conversations with the police: it is tough to enforce laws for petty things when many are related in various degrees of consanguinity. Bad guys do come from the other islands and the mainland to prey on the tourists in various fashions. One way is to make the run from the mainland once a month or so and pick up/purchase the items stolen by locals and run back to the mainland to sell. There are difficulties in prosecution as well due to the independent status of the islands. I am unsure if the ABCs have become states of the Kingdom of the Netherlands at this time; that was the plan. This would change things legally and enforcementwise.

Suffice it to say, the police do not enjoy any crime any more than the average visitor does...

 

[adurso]

Since you are a former cop, could you tell us, in your professional opinion, are the cops on Bonaire doing a respectable job, could they improve things to make it safer i.e., set up stings, survelliance, post guards etc,security cameras, etc?

If the police on Bonaire do not enjoy crime on Bonaire, why don't they take steps to curtail it?

There are 12k folks on that island; most are related to one another by some degree of consanguinity. It is difficult to arrest cousin Bob knowing that the rest of the family will shun you. Family generally means a lot on small islands where you cannot get away from them.

The legal system is in flux, as independent members of the Kingdom of the Netherlands the system is one thing; they have been in a wait mode for several years to become states of the Kingdom of the Netherlands. The difference being that right now they have their own laws and if or when they become states they will be under Dutch law. When this happens they will have Dutch courts and the Kingdom's law enforcement assistance.

They know where the "markets" are and have surveilled them, they know who the professional thieves are and where they come from, they showed me where the kids that steal the things like old towels and flip flops dump the stuff over on the "wild side"...

As someone had mentioned the American concept of a "sting" or "baiting" is at odds with the legal system over there. The Dutch system actually does have an entrapment defense (as do all others) that is more robust than America's.

Putting a camera on a pole at a dive site on the other hand with someone monitoring would not be a bad idea....

Once the whole "State" issue is resolved there will be more resources available to enhance the islnad's reputation....

EDIT the court system creates enforcement problems also; again it is difficult to sentence cousin Ed to a couple of years in the can when your wife is cousin Ed's sister; who will make life even more miserable for you than she already has....the mainland criminals from Venezuela, prosecuting them is a nightmare, they are foreign nationals after all...

 

[gypsyjim]

NEVER ARGUE WITH A FOOL
M C Gupta
25 October 2008


It is best not to argue,
But if you do at all,
Never do so with a fool.
A fool can defeat all.

He does not care for the facts.
He does not know debate.
He’s a stranger to reason.
Logic he can negate.

In the end the fool will win,
His logic is so strong!
Decides what he does not like
And then it must be wrong!

It’s better to keep quiet
When challenged by a fool.
Else, to prove his own wisdom,
He will make you a tool.

It is hence my policy
To not respond to those
Who ask questions not to learn
But to be bellicose.

 

[ncchuck]

Good reading.http://bonairereporter.com/news/2003issues/01-24-03/page3.htm

 

[pilot fish]

So SOS for the future. That tells me what I need to know.

There are 12k folks on that island; most are related to one another by some degree of consanguinity. It is difficult to arrest cousin Bob knowing that the rest of the family will shun you. Family generally means a lot on small islands where you cannot get away from them.

The legal system is in flux, as independent members of the Kingdom of the Netherlands the system is one thing; they have been in a wait mode for several years to become states of the Kingdom of the Netherlands. The difference being that right now they have their own laws and if or when they become states they will be under Dutch law. When this happens they will have Dutch courts and the Kingdom's law enforcement assistance.

They know where the "markets" are and have surveilled them, they know who the professional thieves are and where they come from, they showed me where the kids that steal the things like old towels and flip flops dump the stuff over on the "wild side"...

As someone had mentioned the American concept of a "sting" or "baiting" is at odds with the legal system over there. The Dutch system actually does have an entrapment defense (as do all others) that is more robust than America's.

Putting a camera on a pole at a dive site on the other hand with someone monitoring would not be a bad idea....

Once the whole "State" issue is resolved there will be more resources available to enhance the islnad's reputation....

EDIT the court system creates enforcement problems also; again it is difficult to sentence cousin Ed to a couple of years in the can when your wife is cousin Ed's sister; who will make life even more miserable for you than she already has....the mainland criminals from Venezuela, prosecuting them is a nightmare, they are foreign nationals after all...

 

[ncchuck]

From ScubaSteve:
"You are not interested in "informing" anybody anything about Bonaire pilot fish. You are transparent and fooling nobody."

Bonaire has some of the best shore diving in the world. Not disputed.
Bonaire is a fun place to visit with good restaurant and accomodation choices. Not disputed.
Nearly all islands and continents have crime problems. Not disputed.
Charlotte, NC has some crime problems as do most American Cities. Not disputed.
Bonaire has a petty theft problem. Disputed but widely reported by many divers.
The hotel association on Bonaire believes (2003) there is a serious petty theft problem that effects tourism. Apparantly disputed but reported none the less.
Bonaire does not appear to be doing much about the disputed petty theft problem. Disputed.
Please let me which of these is not informative to other divers. (Obviously the reports about Charlotte are of no value to divers since there is no diving in Charlotte)

 

[gypsyjim]

I will try one last time to use reason here:

First you put down the police as corrupt, inept, watching tv instead of doing police work, etc.

That is the sad reality of shore diving in a rental truck on Bonaire- they just lay in wait for you, AND THE POLICE DO NADA, ZIP, NOTHING. Skynscuba, did you have to pay for the battery at the rental agency from you deductible?

That has been my point all along - if all divers stopped going there till the feckless, corrupt police did something, you'd see this problem cleared up real fast. Chuck, you are so right, the Bonaire fans
treat it like a pesty nuisance, not the crime that it is. Divers deserve better.

And on, and on, and on, about how police not only do not enforce the laws, but protect the criminals, and refuse to even admit there is a problem. In fact actively hiding any such crime from the publics eyes.


And then you back up your theories with an article published in a Bonaire news paper. A story from 2003, commending the same police for their efforts, and quoting the police, discussing how a large part of the problem is a legal system where juveniles are caught, and have to be released on a regular basis, because juveniles by Dutch law are practically immune for prosecution for such crimes, and discussing efforts to change these laws so the police can better protect visitors and residents:

Good reading.Page Title

So much for actively hiding crime from the public eye.

I am only pointing out this for the benefit of other divers who may get lost in all the opinions flying around on the thread.

Yes, there is petty crime on Bonaire, and it can be a real PITA for the unwary visitor. I have dived and stayed no where in all my travels that I was not aware of some increased and even unknown risks, and taken precautions to prevent my becoming a victim.
We were warned of the potential for petty crime well before our first visit to Bonaire 5 or 6 years ago, being pretty much common knowledge, along with the common sense advisories discussed in length here and elsewhere.
Making false accusations about the police, and their attempts to bury the truth, do nothing to help the situation.