Is the Sidewinder a real SM unit?

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jale

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Hi
Just for the sake of talking :)
In a thread about a person refusing to choose a SW because it is an SM unit, it makes me wonder if the SW is really an SM unit :)
Indeed, should not the SW just be defined as a modified Spirit with only the canisters placed further apart and by then considered as another BM unit?
By extension, does an SM unit imply it has to be removable-ditchable?
Can then we say that only "tube" rebreathers like Flex, Liberty, T-reb, Sidekick, Joki,...are "real" SM units?
What do you think?
 

Wibble

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All about the definition of sidemount.

Is it having everything at one's side and removable (e.g. for restrictions, etc.)

Or is sidemount simply the equipment not being placed on one's back to optimise trim, etc.
 

Wibble

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Should also add that the BOB -- bailout 'breather -- will be the next big thing (maybe). That will almost certainly be sidemounted with the bottom bailout cylinder the other side.

Can see those being incredibly useful for those deep dives where bailout gas is the primary constraint. Similarly useful for long overhead penetrations -- maybe even having a team BOB or staging them. Or even using them for long decompression obligations when scrubber duration becomes an issue.
 

tbone1004

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Hi
Just for the sake of talking :)
In a thread about a person refusing to choose a SW because it is an SM unit, it makes me wonder if the SW is really an SM unit :)
Indeed, should not the SW just be defined as a modified Spirit with only the canisters placed further apart and by then considered as another BM unit?
By extension, does an SM unit imply it has to be removable-ditchable?
Can then we say that only "tube" rebreathers like Flex, Liberty, T-reb, Sidekick, Joki,...are "real" SM units?
What do you think?

I've said for years, going back to the prototypes of the sidewinder that it was a backmount unit that fell off the back and was just a REALLY thin backmount unit. It has a lot of the advantages of backmount which helps as well. It does not necessarily require sidemounted bailout either as several are using modified versions with a set of doubles for bailout or a "real" backmount breather on the back with the sidewinder as a dual setup.

Your buddies objection was literally just because it was a sidemount unit though? That's unfortunate. There's many reasons to not choose a sidewinder but on principal because it is a sidemount unit isn't the right attitude.
 

rjack321

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Your buddies objection was literally just because it was a sidemount unit though? That's unfortunate. There's many reasons to not choose a sidewinder but on principal because it is a sidemount unit isn't the right attitude.

I will be the first to say that nobodies first CCR should be a sidemount unit. And the sidewinder with SM dil/bo is a sidemount unit. It can be configured different ways and even made into a spirit sure. The spirit has basically all of the same flaws as the sidewinder in a taller BM package lol
 

SlugMug

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Better questions might be:
  • Does one need sidemount training or skills to use a sidewinder?
  • Does the sidewinder offer the same advantages (or disadvantages) as sidemount?
I don't know the answers myself, but I often find focusing on whether something fit's a label, is less useful than focusing on what characteristics something does or doesn't share.

As someone relatively new-ish to sidemount (semi-self-taught, a few months & about 20 dives) I mostly see sidemount as:

  • The gear configuration, including typically (but not always) needing a non-standard BCD, and mounting cylinders (or air) to your sides in a way that is not fixed to your BCD, and usually detachable independent airsources.
  • Skills, including regulator swapping, managing gas in multiple tanks, cylinder trim, donning & doffing equipment, harness adjustment.
  • SM is not exactly the same as having stage-cylinders or slinging, in that sidemount is concerned with streamlining & cylinder trim.
But I could also see having a similar streamlining to sidemount, even if it looks nothing like having bungies, etc, still has the advantages of sidemount, and therefore and still somewhat qualify for the label.
 

Marie13

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TDI does require SM certification, as well as some minimal SM dives (10).

5A8DBFBD-01BB-441F-89B4-5FD5AFA7B9DC.jpeg
 

tbone1004

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Better questions might be:
  • Does one need sidemount training or skills to use a sidewinder?
  • Does the sidewinder offer the same advantages (or disadvantages) as sidemount?
I don't know the answers myself, but I often find focusing on whether something fit's a label, is less useful than focusing on what characteristics something does or doesn't share.

As someone relatively new-ish to sidemount (semi-self-taught, a few months & about 20 dives) I mostly see sidemount as:

  • The gear configuration, including typically (but not always) needing a non-standard BCD, and mounting cylinders (or air) to your sides in a way that is not fixed to your BCD, and usually detachable independent airsources.
  • Skills, including regulator swapping, managing gas in multiple tanks, cylinder trim, donning & doffing equipment, harness adjustment.
  • SM is not exactly the same as having stage-cylinders or slinging, in that sidemount is concerned with streamlining & cylinder trim.
But I could also see having a similar streamlining to sidemount, even if it looks nothing like having bungies, etc, still has the advantages of sidemount, and therefore and still somewhat qualify for the label.

training-according to the agencies yes, it certainly helps but you should with all CCR since sidemounted bailout is way better than slung floppy stages
advantages and disadvantages-it has unique advantages and disadvantages to "traditional" sidemount rebreathers because it is a unique configuration.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/perdix-ai/

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