Is Scubapro Feeling A Pinch?

[scrane]

The D 420 is the best second stage I have, its easy to service and unless you really want the SP seat rather than the modified 104 o ring seat you don’t need the kit very often but with the kit you get all the moving parts.

the 400 can go a long time but parts are getting harder to find, the purge cover is the main weak point along with the diaphragm, the 420 uses more commonly available parts.

The d420 might be a better bet for those who service their own gear and have the expertise to modify factory components.
But for the average guy? I don't think so.
When my d400 gives up the ghost I'll have to go into the basement and dig up the spare. I have a feeling they'll outlive me anyways. If not I'll dust off the Atomics. The d400 is not without its concerns, but its performance is worth it for me. Probably the same for you and the d420.
But the question is: can ScubaPro sell and make money on the d420?

 

[Josh the diver]

unpopular opinion, scubapro is overrated and overpriced. though for that sale price might be worth it

 

[RobPNW]

Mk19 Evo is more expensive in Europe as well. Either because sealed diaphragm first stage takes more parts to make or SP finally realized that 19 superior to 25.

I bet they have a massive downturn in Mk25 sales.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

unpopular opinion, scubapro is overrated and overpriced. though for that sale price might be worth it

I’m not sure if Scubapro is necessarily overrated (maybe?), but it’s definitely overpriced. Is it worth it? To some people price doesn’t mean much, to others it means a lot more. They charge what they charge simply because they can.
A lot about scuba gear choices are emotionally driven.
As far as the actual mechanical functioning and quality of materials used in Scubapro regulators is nothing really exceptionally superior to any other reg out there I don’t think, maybe materials are consistently very good and reliable. Other brands are probably just as good with machining and precise tolerances with modern computer aided manufacturing. Manufacturing accuracy now is pretty damn good across the board. Some other brands, especially off brands, the machining might be great but I do question the quality of materials the most. Scubapro uses some proprietary processes in their manufacturing that others do not.
So that leaves the emotional aspect, and the nostalgic appeal. Laugh if you want but it is a very real factor.
It also leaves to question the product support aspect and worldwide support networks. Scubapro has the widest support network globally over any other brand. They also remained functional during the pandemic whereas others not so much.
You’re paying for all this not just the actual physical product. If it was just the manufacturing cost of the product plus a modest retail markup then the products would be priced a lot more realistically, but there’s a lot more to it. Companies need to make profit ahead so they can fund future innovation.
It’s really up the the individual to decide of they want to pay the S tax, or not.

 

[rhwestfall]

You left out the R&D costs.... You pay for the development. Others that produce a design based on an expired patent need not recoup any R&D.....

 

[BoltSnap]

I’m not sure if Scubapro is necessarily overrated (maybe?), but it’s definitely overpriced. Is it worth it? To some people price doesn’t mean much, to others it means a lot more. They charge what they charge simply because they can.
A lot about scuba gear choices are emotionally driven.
As far as the actual mechanical functioning and quality of materials used in Scubapro regulators is nothing really exceptionally superior to any other reg out there I don’t think, maybe materials are consistently very good and reliable. Other brands are probably just as good with machining and precise tolerances with modern computer aided manufacturing. Manufacturing accuracy now is pretty damn good across the board. Some other brands, especially off brands, the machining might be great but I do question the quality of materials the most. Scubapro uses some proprietary processes in their manufacturing that others do not.
So that leaves the emotional aspect, and the nostalgic appeal. Laugh if you want but it is a very real factor.
It also leaves to question the product support aspect and worldwide support networks. Scubapro has the widest support network globally over any other brand. They also remained functional during the pandemic whereas others not so much.
You’re paying for all this not just the actual physical product. If it was just the manufacturing cost of the product plus a modest retail markup then the products would be priced a lot more realistically, but there’s a lot more to it. Companies need to make profit ahead so they can fund future innovation.
It’s really up the the individual to decide of they want to pay the S tax, or not.

I started reading your post disagreeing with you until the last part of it and it became more reasonable and realistic

The cost of manufacturing isn't just the direct cost of materials, machining, etc. but there are MANY other costs involved. I am, by education and practice, an engineer and for a long while I wasn't into accounting and costing analysis until I became more involved in part of the business that dealt with ERP's and financial analysis and had to dive very deep into the accounting and business aspects of financial systems in the manufacturing sector (oil & Gas, cement factories and others). The more sophisticated the business and the better financial tools it uses, the more they learn about their true costs to deliver a specific product to the retail shelves. The financial analysis tools that have been available in the market the last 10 - 15 years have incredible sets of tools to dig down into cost analysis especially with multi-year data and identify the true costs of doing business far better than what has been done before. These software tools aren't cheap and usually only available with the more established and robust software suites (I know about this very well since my team that includes PhD from MIT/Cambridge types in engineering/cs/accounting and business analysis) and only better financed companies can afford these tools. Scubapro is part of the Johnson Outdoors Mega holding company that has its own financial tools and experts. These experts and their tools are much more capable to analyze their business and figure out their true costs and what it takes to survive in business in addition to generating net profits to pay the shareholders. Scubapro has a true "Research & Development" people covering regulators, BC's and other parts of their product offerings, the greater majority of other scuba equipment companies don't, at least not in a true sense of the term. Scubapro's team of engineers and technicians are directly involved in the manufacturing process even when they subcontract the manufacturing to other companies, something most others don't do that and can't afford it. Scubapro is able to determine their costs at a much more complete and accurate level than the GREATER majority of their competitors and eventually charge for their products what gives them a much better chance of continuing to survive in business and develop new products in addition to surviving less than optimum business circumstances, time of COVID for example.

One has to ask themselves this questions; which is better, be remembered as a "nice guy who gave better prices" after they have gone out of business or as the guy who has higher prices but is still in business and continues to be in business for decades to come. SP, and the other giants, have been in business for decades and they have done very well and appear to be doing much better than the others. I rather be the guy who continues to be in business not the "nice guy" who goes bankrupt because he couldn't figure out what it takes to stay in business but is a "nice guy."

 

[RobPNW]

The only beef I have with SP is that depending on where you live, there's a 100% difference in the prices.

 

[rhwestfall]

... parts...

 

[scubadada]

My guess is that Scubapro is simply not selling as many D420s as they would like, so they put it on sale. I have never seen a D420 in the wild.

The sale price puts the D420 with an excellent first stage at a price less than the S600, S620Ti, G260

 

[Rayk]

unpopular opinion, scubapro is overrated and overpriced. though for that sale price might be worth it

Reason being that opinion is unpopular might be because it is an inaccurate opinion. Show me another brand in the market that their regulators made well over half a century ago can be still used today, spare parts can be found today, their performance still be matching current products of their competitions.

I used and still using pretty old Scubapro stuff and when I say old, talking about 30ish years old and I never had any issues in terms of their performance or finding parts and having them fixed etc.