Is PADI popular because it's cute?

[anzac65]

I think it's ridiculous to claim that if you can't swim 200 yards or whatever then you can't swim.

You don't just think it's ridiculous, it is ridiculous.

 

[leapfrog]

OK, the OP is "Is PADI popular because it's cute?" Except from some posts suggesting that Irishmen (and even Scotsmen, when I've never heard of one called Paddie) are cute, that seems pretty much ruled out.

Walter, why do you think PADI is popular? With all due respect, I think the training standards question is not only legitimate, it's also important and deserves another thread.

Why do I think it's popular? Simply put, they are out there. And "out there" is everywhere! I have been working in Europe for the last few years and you can't get NAUI certified anywhere. As far as YMCA is concerned, unfortunately Village People was so successful over here (not surprising being Europe) that 99% of Europeans think it's a gay club. The Brits want BSAC (they always have to be different, it's the diving version of driving on the wrong side of the road) and occasionally you see SSI or ACUC (maybe 5% of the continental European market). Then most of the national diving federations have a CMAS equivalent certification for their country. 25 countries? 25 certification agencies. CMAS is pretty big in France (logical because it's French).

And that's just Europe. I looked at Asia and again it's a similar story. PADI, PADI, PADI.

Why?

 

[Walter]

Walter, why do you think PADI is popular?

I answered that question in post 18.

 

[Tomeck]

Then most of the national diving federations have a CMAS equivalent certification for their country. 25 countries? 25 certification agencies. CMAS is pretty big in France (logical because it's French).

Do you think CMAS is only French?

With your coordinate GPS 40º 34'N -3º 55'W, do you live in Menorca?

 

[AdamSchreffler]

As a new member to scubaboard, I have to say this is the biggest bunch of crybabies I've ever read through in a thread. Who cares? Aren't we all a part of the dive community, regardless of what agency we choose to train through? Should'nt we all strive to dive safe and help anyone who needs it? Get over yourselves.

 

[leapfrog]

Absolutely not. PADI is the largest certification agency for one reason and one reason only. It's the same reason McDonalds is so large. It's fast. Quality is low, but most folks don't care about that, they just want it now.

You didn't actually answer why it was POPULAR, you said it was fast. Could you elaborate on what you mean by "fast"? PIC online perhaps? So when we give swift customer service we're McDonalds? What about Saks 5th Ave? I get pretty swift service there (maybe that's just me). Otherwise the need for speed has to do with the instructors or even more probably the Dive Center owner than PADI? You said quality is low. There's a pretty aggresive Quality Management program in play at PADI. If the quality is low, isn't that the instructor's fault as well? As far as most folks not caring about low quality, I'm not sure if I agree. Folks actually want low quality in a potentially life/health threatening activity they are going to invest a lot of time and money in? I'll be darned.

 

[300bar]

As a new member to scubaboard, I have to say this is the biggest bunch of crybabies I've ever read through in a thread. Who cares? Aren't we all a part of the dive community, regardless of what agency we choose to train through? Should'nt we all strive to dive safe and help anyone who needs it? Get over yourselves.

I'm just afraid you're yelling at some very old brick walls.
It's just the age old story of the commercials against the non-commercials.

 

[NudeDiver]

With the exception of Apple's products, try finding a computer without microsoft being involved.

Well, duh, Apple. Or, if you're really adventurous, some flavour of Linux.

I cannot afford the Apple products, so I go with microsoft ones.

You can get an Apple computer for $1000 - even less if you get a used one. That may be double what you can get a Windows one for, but it's still not much money.

PADI is like Harley - they may not be the most advanced thing on the market, but everyone's gotta have one, and their accident rates are no better or worse than anyone elses.

Harley sells image as much as, or more than Apple. They also have a price premium product, like Apple. Harley is the Apple of motorcycles

 

[NudeDiver]

If, on the other hand, 70% of all divers were PADI certified, but 90% of all accidents involved PADI divers, it would indicate a clear trend of PADI divers being less safe than other agencies.

True, but just because PADI's divers may be unsafe, it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with PADI training. People are always free to ignore their training. It could really mean anything. It could mean PADI draws more idiots than other agencies, it could mean PADI draws more risk-taking people than other agencies, it could mean PADI divers dive in more challenging conditions, it COULD mean PADI's training is inferior to other agencies...you just don't know by only looking at those 70/90 figures.

The other metric that would be valuable to look at is percentage of any given agency's divers that are involved in accidents. If, say, the average across the board is that 10% of most agencies divers are involved in accidents each year, but PADI has a rate that shows 20% are involved in accidents each year, their per capita rate would indicate PADI divers are, on average, less safe than other agencies' divers.

But again, that doesn't necessarily indicate anything about PADI's training or its methodology.

Correlation is not cause.

 

[Walter]

Aren't we all a part of the dive community, regardless of what agency we choose to train through?

Yes.

Should'nt we all strive to dive safe and help anyone who needs it?

That's exactly what some of us are doing.

You didn't actually answer why it was POPULAR, you said it was fast.

Actually, I did. PADI is the largest (most popular) certification agency for one reason and one reason only. It's the same reason McDonalds is so large. It's fast (the reason).

We live in an instant gratification society. Most people want something ASAP. Speed is all that matters. They want a c-card. They can get a PADI c-card in one weekend or they can go down the street to a place with a high quality class that takes several weeks. They'll almost always go for the weekend class. That's why it's popular and it's the only reason it's popular. Yes, they've marketed it well and that certainly helped, but that's a small part of PADI's success.

You said quality is low.

I did. I'm speaking of their published standards.

There's a pretty aggresive Quality Management program in play at PADI.

What gave you that idea? They send out a few postcards, that's not what I'd call "pretty aggressive." More to the point, their QA program is only designed to find violations of standards. Their standards are so low that you can teach a pretty poor program without coming close to violating standards. PADI's standards are the problem.

If the quality is low, isn't that the instructor's fault as well?

No. Instructors don't write PADI's standards, PADI does. Low quality standards is PADI's fault and only PADI's fault. OTOH, an instructor with lots on the ball and knowledge of how to teach a better class can certainly make lots of improvements. The biggest problem is PADI encourages their instructors to teach by the book. Many, many PADI instructors were taught to dive the PADI way, they were taught how to teach the PADI way. They think they are teaching a high quality class. They don't know what they don't know. It sickens me when I see folks trying to shift responsibility from PADI (and other agencies with low standards) to instructors who are honestly doing the best they know how.

True, but just because PADI's divers may be unsafe, it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with PADI training. People are always free to ignore their training. It could really mean anything. It could mean PADI draws more idiots than other agencies, it could mean PADI draws more risk-taking people than other agencies, it could mean PADI divers dive in more challenging conditions, it COULD mean PADI's training is inferior to other agencies...you just don't know by only looking at those 70/90 figures.

True. It doesn't become clear until you start comparing standards.