Is learning from PADI that bad?

[mathauck0814]

But the same can be said for instructors teaching for any agency ... including GUE ... because the quality comes from within, not from the choice of agency.

Prior to becoming an instructor I held cards from four different agencies. I've added two more agencies and several more certifications since then.

I think most instructors do.

It's rare to find a dive instructor who only has c-cards from the agency they're teaching for, with the probable exception of the zero-to-hero types ... and the majority of those should be avoided regardless of what agency they're teaching for.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

So perhaps I misinterpreted the OP's question, which I believe was, "Is learning from PADI bad" to which I answered, "If you only learn from PADI, yes".

 

[DevonDiver]

Choice of instructor is, was and always will be, the factor that decides the quality of training.

A bigger agency means a bigger instructor population. For the potential student, that can make it harder to identify the wheat from the chaff. Greater size might also bring about more difficulty in applying quality standards... meaning the agency has more difficulty regulating the chaff.

Also, the bigger, more profitable, agencies tend to attract dive instructors/operators that are more focused towards their own profitability. Identification with the most popular 'brand name' and high agency marketing budgets are very prudent considerations if you don't want your scuba business to fade into bankruptcy within a few years. Again, this can cause a wheat-chaff situation, because attracting profit-focused dive businesses will always entail that a proportion of those businesses will be exclusively concerned with profit.

Either way, if you research, interview and select your instructor on a personal basis - in line with your own identified goals and preferences for training outcome, you won't be disappointed.

 

[supergaijin]

I believe most entry-level certificates are pretty equal with all the major agencies that I'm aware of.

Things start changing from the 2nd-level up but most agencies have an AOW (or equivalent), a Rescue (or equiv) and then a guiding cert for entry-level pros.

As far as the Instructor training goes, I wasn't too impressed with some aspects of PADI and SSI's which go heavy in to up-selling equipment and training. I believe those things speak for themselves without needing to devote hours to the subject, and being required as part of the Instr Development Course teaching sessions.

 

[Peter Guy]

Someone asked what I think is a very good question -- Can a PADI only trained instructor be a good instructor? And, in my opinion, the answer is yes ------- BUT.

The "BUT" is related NOT to whether all one's training is from PADI (or any other agency) but if all of your training is from the same "family" of instructors. That is where I think problems can arise.

For example, an LDS starts up with an instructor or two who then teach OW and from those classes find a few students who "move up the ranks" all within that "family." They eventually become instructors but only having worked with (and perhaps even dived with) the same people. That is where I believe problems arise.

For me what is important for an instructor (PADI or otherwise) is to have been exposed to many different teaching styles and techniques regardless of the agency. And this can be done solely by working with PADI (NAUI, SSI/TDI, etc.) instructors BUT instructors with varied backgrounds.

I happen to think that every PADI Open Water instructor should be required to have taken and passed the PADI Tec 40 class (or an equivalent) just so their experience is broader than what they are teaching. But all of their training could be within the PADI system -- just outside one shop or training "family."

 

[Melicertes]

Quality may or may not be present, but if it is present it isn't coming from PADI.

I am confused. So are you saying that it is absolutely impossible for a "pure bred" PADI instructor to present any form of quality training and instruction in a diving course he or she presents using the PADI curriculum?

Let me put it another way, your contention is that before an instructor who has been exclusively trained within the PADI system can conduct a quality centered course, he or she would first have to be certified in other agency's training program and supplement the PADI curriculum with that information before the course would be something worthwhile to invest in? Besides of course the all access pass value to dive anywhere you want (your ubiquity argument).

Or even better, you are saying that the only worth a cert card has that has been signed off by a "pure bred" PADI OWSI is to serve as a useless wrist stamp (your ubiquity argument) to get on the boat and that divers trained by such instructors can never be considered capable divers given their training from said instructor?

Maybe I misunderstood your post; could you please clarify? Because if that is indeed your contention I don't mind publicly calling that argument utter Moo Manure right here.

 

[mainedvr]

Well, I basically got some of the input I was looking for and as NWGratefulDiver stated " I may have asked the wrong question" at the very least it was ambiguous and got the same response as this type of question gets on any thread.

I did my AOW and a basic wreck course at PADI shops, the AOW was just what it was designed to be a bit of a taste of various specialties that PADI (or others offer) and well it was fun especially the scooter ride from shore out to the St Anthony in Maui. And same for the basic wreck course just a very basic course to inform us of the dangers associated with wreck diving and how to approach it safely.

While I am still not sure if I want to go pro, I will just do what I always do and do my homework on whom I am going to take the courses with and make the best choice I can.

Thanks

 

[Them]

I am confused. ...

So let's say that a particular OW training class has quality, breadth, rigor, and a basic book/specialized calculator/blue vinyl bag, the use of all required equipment through the class, a checklist of skills that must be taught and standards for teaching them, lunch on the OW cert dive days, and if you meet all requirements a PADI C-Card.

Which parts came from PADI?

Where did the other parts come from?

My observation is that PADI doesn't push themselves as the lunch-providing agency. That doesn't mean the course isn't "pure PADI" because the shop serves lunch.

Likewise, my observation is that PADI doesn't say anything about shops letting you use equipment, but the PADI shop I went to did. That doesn't mean the course wasn't "pure PADI" either.

No experience like dive training ever comes from a single source. It isn't all PADI, or all the shop, or all the instructor; different parties provide different ingredients.

More to my original point, different parties provide VALUE with different ingredients. They sell (market) different ingredients. The shop might sell the fact that they provide equipment use and lunch. The instructor might sell the quality of her training. PADI sells that their C-Card is accepted everywhere. That's the value they have positioned themselves to provide.

I don't see how you could look at their marketing/self promotion and disagree, and I certainly don't see how you could take offense at that being pointed out, but if you do that's OK. It isn't the best argument fodder but what the hell, we can make it work.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I am confused. So are you saying that it is absolutely impossible for a "pure bred" PADI instructor to present any form of quality training and instruction in a diving course he or she presents using the PADI curriculum?

Let me put it another way, your contention is that before an instructor who has been exclusively trained within the PADI system can conduct a quality centered course, he or she would first have to be certified in other agency's training program and supplement the PADI curriculum with that information before the course would be something worthwhile to invest in? Besides of course the all access pass value to dive anywhere you want (your ubiquity argument).

Or even better, you are saying that the only worth a cert card has that has been signed off by a "pure bred" PADI OWSI is to serve as a useless wrist stamp (your ubiquity argument) to get on the boat and that divers trained by such instructors can never be considered capable divers given their training from said instructor?

Maybe I misunderstood your post; could you please clarify? Because if that is indeed your contention I don't mind publicly calling that argument utter Moo Manure right here.

I believe he's saying that whatever quality exists in a course isn't provided by the agency, but by the individual. If that's his argument, I agree with it.

There are high-quality and low-quality instructors in every agency ... including the one everyone likes to brag about as being the gold-standard for quality instruction.

And every instructor has classes where, for one reason or another (usually a combination of reasons), the class doesn't provide the quality they'd like to believe it did.

Quality doesn't come from a set of standards, or student materials, or a checklist of skills, or a card that says you completed the class ... and that's all any agency provides. In that respect, PADI is no better or worse than any of the others. It's just a toolbox ... quality is determined by how the tools get used ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Hawkwood]

...I happen to think that every PADI Open Water instructor should be required to have taken and passed the PADI Tec 40 class (or an equivalent) just so their experience is broader than what they are teaching...

I'm working on it!

 

[gypsyjim]

I am not, and expect never will be, aimed at becoming an instructor, but my experience with the PADI op where my kids trained was very positive. Quite thorough, and they sure went the extra mile.

My original training was with the Y, but when my kids got into diving I decided to do the AOW with that PADI Course Director, as a "refresher", because I was impressed with his approach to teaching beyond the minimum. I certainly see value in any diver, not just a prospective instructor cross training in this sport, or at least seeking training from different ops.

You get differing ideas, options, opinions, and even skill sets when you are exposed to different instructor groups and organizations.