Is learning from PADI that bad?

[mainedvr]

Ok,

I know it is very dependent on the instructor, but I see lots of PADI bashing I know some (well maybe ) is in jest, but is there really something wrong with PADI and its training or is it just that on a whole there is not much expectation and if you can do the skills in the pool at a resort and do a few OW dives you get certified to dive on your vacation?

What I am really interested in finding out is, how does PADI's professional level training measure up against other agencies?(again I realize instructor dependent for the most part) For instance things like curriculum, skill work ect... Is it really bad or worth it for someone to start someone off as an instructor?

Hope this makes sense.

 

[adutto]

Honestly, I don't believe PADI is better or worse than any other... I personally have PADI and SSI certifications, and the process was not different at all! Also, one of my best "buddies" is IANTD, and I don't see knowledge difference between us.
Like any other activity, if you study and are really aware of where you want to go then you'll be a responsible and well-trained diver. If you are not like that, you'll suck, regardless of the brand in your brevet.

Maybe there are so many people agains PADI, because is the largest certification organization and, as such, there are more crappy instructors than from the others (but there are more good instructors as well ).

I know this will create lots of discussion, these are my 0.02 USD.

 

[Simon-]

The percentage of poor instructors with PADI will be no greater than other agencies. The problem is that the actual quantity will be greater purely on the number of instructors.

 

[Them]

I think PADI is like McDonalds or Denny's. The value they provide isn't quality per se. That's not to say they have an inferior product but their pitch isn't "we're the best." McDonnalds claims that you can go into any McDonals on the planet and have a consistent and familiar experience. PADI claims a PADI c-card will always be recognized.

Personally, I differentiate "getting a C-Card" and "learning/getting training"... PADI controls the c-cards, instructors control the training.

 

[jonnythan]

PADI is no better or worse than SSI or NAUI. They're just the biggest so they get the most flak for being the poster boy of the rec diver industry.

 

[Wayne at DiveSeekers]

PADI, NAUI, SSI Etc... They all have some really good Instructors as well as really bad ones. It is your Instructor that makes the Training/Course a good one so interview a couple of instructors and find out just what is going to be covered in the course as well as his or her experiences and philosophies, then you can make a decision on who to train with. If yiou know any active divers you can try and get recommendations from them as well. Like everyone else has said, they are the biggest of the agencies so that is why they get a lot of flack.

 

[TSandM]

The OW classes from the major agencies don't really differ a great deal in the material that is presented, or the length of the class. OW, as it commonly exists, is too short to give people more than a toehold on good diving skills. In places where you need only light or no exposure protection, and where the visibility is very good, that is enough for people to get underwater and do simple dives and enjoy them.

Any class taught by an uninterested and uninspired instructor, to agency minimums, will be pretty poor. Classes taught by thoughtful instructors who put in a little extra will be much better. PADI is pretty prescriptive about what you are allowed to do and the order in which you must do it, compared with NAUI and what I have heard of SEI. But, as a PADI DM and someone who has very strong opinions about the skill level recreational divers OUGHT to have, I think a PADI OW class can be a very acceptable starting point, if the student realizes that more instruction or mentoring, and more practice will be required to make a strong and capable diver of them.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Ok,

I know it is very dependent on the instructor, but I see lots of PADI bashing I know some (well maybe ) is in jest, but is there really something wrong with PADI and its training or is it just that on a whole there is not much expectation and if you can do the skills in the pool at a resort and do a few OW dives you get certified to dive on your vacation?

What I am really interested in finding out is, how does PADI's professional level training measure up against other agencies?(again I realize instructor dependent for the most part) For instance things like curriculum, skill work ect... Is it really bad or worth it for someone to start someone off as an instructor?

Hope this makes sense.

I take it from your question that you're considering becoming a DM or instructor. If that's the case, then I think you're asking the wrong question. As a dive professional, PADI will open more doors for you worldwide than other agencies, simply because they are ... by far ... the largest agency out there. As for the quality of the training ... and the quality of the services you will offer as a dive professional ... that has way more to do with you than it does your choice of either agency or instructor.

I know many PADI instructors who are very well trained, and who offer their students quality and value. What makes them so isn't their choice of agency ... or even the instructor they chose to learn from ... it's their own commitment to putting effort into learning how to dive, ability to convey their skills and knowledge to their students, commitment to a work ethic that has them putting more than just the minimum effort required into each class, caring about each student enough to demand a reasonable level of excellence, and a genuine love for what they do.

None of this is specific to any agency. PADI ... like every agency ... has its positives and negatives. Many people complain about their "lowest common denominator" approach to scuba instruction ... but although they enable an instructor to teach that way, it's really the instructor's choice to do so. The fact is that most agencies have that same approach to some degree or another ... they tend to target the largest audience, which is the occasional, warm-water vacation diver ... and train on the assumption that people will be going on dives led by a dive professional. Where they fall short is in providing appropriate training for divers in areas where guided dives are uncommon or non-existent. But the same can be said for most other agencies as well. That's where an instructor committed to training local divers becomes so important ... and nothing in PADI's approach prevents a good instructor from doing so. I know several who have been doing it successfully for years.

Bottom line ... if your goal is to become a professional, make a commitment to be the best one you can be ... then find an agency that provides opportunities for you to work in the area you're interested in working in ... then find an instructor who suits your needs, goals and learning style.

It all starts with you ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[rogersab1223]

Having just recently gone through Confined, OW, AOW, Nitrox and Deep certifications with 5 PADI instructors at 2 different dive shops, I have ONLY nice things to say about the quality of instruction I received. One of the two shops seemed a little more "laid back" (not necessarily in a good way) than the other, but to a man, the instructors and instruction was outstanding. I understand that's a small data set with no comparison within the industry.

My ONLY gripe about diver certifications, and I'm sure this is the case regardless of agency is that an instructor can't say "No you're not certified" or "no, you need more pool time" or "you did not pass the AOW, you got lost on the 100 foot out & back portion of the required navigation dive."

When I tool the pool classes, there were a couple teenagers in it that had no body control, no sort of grasp whatsoever on body positioning or bouyancy and were generally the kind of people that are going to get someone hurt. If it was a "day one" issue, no problem but they were having the same problems on day 4 that they were on day one (constant freeflow of alternate secondary, thrashing and kicking, upside-down descents, etc.) The instructor should have the ability to say that they need more pool time or have some recourse other than throwing them in the open water four times and sending them on their way to dive on their own. This isn't the instructors fault that I can see, our instructor spent TONS of time trying to get them together - it's probably an economic thing: like, if they needed more pool time, PADI would have to refund or provide additional instruction for free. I sorta get it, but not really.

Likewise, we actually did have a guy get lost on the 100 foot out&back navigation dive. In Key West with 60+ feet of vis.

Or maybe it's just me... I'm an old army paratrooper and I know lots of guys that spent extra time at jump school until they demonstrated proficiency in the skills required to save their lives and keep them from putting other people in harms way. So maybe I'm the a-hole...

But, to the OP's original question: I have received great instruction through PADI and look forward to receiving much more.

Andy

 

[OldNSalty]

From what I understand PADI will allow you to ad to the course at your discretion but you can't let the additional work count towards certification. Some other agencies will allow the instructor to go beyond the minimum and with hold the card if the student does not measure up. I guess in theory this means that 2 instructors, one from PADI an done from 'x' might decide to include a full blown rescue course in the OW course. The difference is that the PADI instructor could not fail you if you didn't grasp all the rescue stuff. The other instructor could...again, in theory, this would mean that the non-PADI guy has the ability to produce more knowledgeable divers. In practice, I think it is a crap shoot if you try and pick a certs based on agency affiliation at the OW level.