Is learning from PADI that bad?

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

And I am sure you know at least 90% of instructors from all the agencies in the world, so you have a really good basis to make a sound comparative judgment.

Of course not. I do, however, know quite a few very highly regarded instructors and none of them are PADI instructors primarily. That was my point. I, like many, learned to dive via PADI. I, like many, see the problems with that and appreciate the extra work it created for the instructors who finally got me sorted out.

I doubt I would take another PADI course, there are just too many good alternatives out there being taught by people who have made a (successful) career distancing themselves from that mess.
 
Can you become a well trained instructor while staying solely within the PADI curriculum?
Of course you can. Not only can you become a well-trained instructor ... but you can turn out well-trained students while staying solely within the PADI curriculum ... or that of any other agency, for that matter.

A great deal of it boils down to how much effort you put into becoming that instructor. Are you someone who demands a lot of yourself? Or someone who wants to skate through with just the minimum? Are you someone who puts effort into becoming a good diver before signing up for your instructor training? Or someone who goes out and sits on a platform for 20 minutes at a time to "get your numbers up"? Are you someone who looks at agency requirements as a ceiling or a floor?

The curriculum isn't as rigid as some folks make it out to be ... not even for PADI. "Teaching extra" doesn't always entail introducing skills that aren't on the agenda. Often the difference isn't the skill itself, but how it gets taught. The agency ... PADI or otherwise ... specifies that a skill must be "mastered". What does that mean? For some instructors it means you demonstrate it to the student, they mimic what you did, you check it off as "mastered" and move on. For other instructors, "mastery" means they want to see a certain level of comfort and smoothness in the skill before they consider it accomplished. This may require a student to clear their mask multiple times until it looks effortless.

Which diver is better trained? Both instructors will have stayed solely within the PADI curriculum.

Another example ... like all agencies, PADI specifies a minimum amount of in-water time for a given class. But they do not specify that you must get out of the water when that number is reached. So one instructor sticks to the minimum ... while another keeps his students in the water, either doing skills or touring, until air or student comfort dictates that they need to end the dive.

Which diver is better trained? Both instructors stayed solely within the PADI standards.

And another ... one instructor teaches all skills to students while kneeling. Another instructor demonstrates and has the students perform the same skills while hovering.

Which diver is better trained? Both instructors stayed solely within PADI standards.

There is a misconception that the standards impact the quality of training. They do not. The standards define WHAT must be taught. The instructor determines the degree of control and comfort that constitutes "mastery".

I have a friend who is a PADI instructor. The day I met her we were sharing a dive site ... I was training a DM candidate. We were doing some mid-water drills when, below me, three divers swam past ... one in the lead, two swimming side-by-side behind her. All were looking lovely in the water, gliding effortlessly and frog kicking ... not stirring up a speck of silt. On surface interval I asked the other instructor what class she was teaching. To my surprise she said Open Water. I asked when PADI started teaching frog kicks in OW. She said she didn't teach them ... the students saw her kicking that way and started doing what she was doing ... so she kept them in the water a while and let them practice it.

She stayed solely within the PADI curriculum ... and simply by being a good example, provided the students an opportunity to learn something very useful for the conditions in which they were diving.

A lot of the criticism may come from people who took longer and more comprehensive courses. Many of those courses were offered through schools or government organizations. If those courses were offered commercially they would be higher in cost than the standard OW class and likely many fewer people would take them. Instead you have a fragmented curriculum that is broken up into many bite sized pieces. In the end they are offering what most of their customers want.
It's definitely true that more in-water time usually means better training ... but not always. The time must be used to good advantage ... a longer course that still doesn't get students off their knees, or teach them good buoyancy skills, is nothing more than just a longer course.

In-water time matters ... the water is where you learn how to dive. But you still need someone who can help you learn good habits, who can provide a good visual example of what you should be doing, and who manages that time adequately to allow the student to take advantage of their time in the water.

It always gets back to the instructor. If you teach to the minimums, you'll produce minimally-trained divers. But there's nothing in the standards ... PADI's or anybody elses ... that says you have to teach to the minimums ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
It's the same situation as people saying out educational system sucks. IF you apply yourself, you will come out as smart as the top 1% in the entire world. If you don't, you will come out stupid.

The biggest difference in diving knowledge and skills among the close friends I have who are divers seems to come down to who took their classes seriously, not what agency they certified with. I, of course, supplemented the class with as much as I could read on this forum and elsewhere online. I think that's better than the "best" class you could possibly take, as eventually the class is over but if you keep learning on your own, class never ends.

As for the actual class, find a recommended instructor, study all the materials, and hold a high standard for yourself when learning the underwater skills.
 
Of course not. I do, however, know quite a few very highly regarded instructors and none of them are PADI instructors primarily. That was my point. I, like many, learned to dive via PADI. I, like many, see the problems with that and appreciate the extra work it created for the instructors who finally got me sorted out.

I doubt I would take another PADI course, there are just too many good alternatives out there being taught by people who have made a (successful) career distancing themselves from that mess.

Wouold an example of this be found in these two stores in Florida: Extreme Exposure and Aquatic Center? Both shops offer PADI for their recreational diving and GUE for the rest. Both are owned by a gentleman who is highly regarded for desiring high quality instruction. Would he be one of the people you are talking about?
 
Wouold an example of this be found in these two stores in Florida: Extreme Exposure and Aquatic Center? Both shops offer PADI for their recreational diving and GUE for the rest. Both are owned by a gentleman who is highly regarded for desiring high quality instruction. Would he be one of the people you are talking about?

Even PADI gives enough flexibility to focus more time on buoyancy and trim. I am sure their fees are higher than average for a longer class...

http://www.extreme-exposure.com/node/35
 
I can't do the comparisons as all my training is PADI, but there isn't much in this thread I disagree with. TS & M basically pointed out that getting the OW cert. is just a beginning. That is a key. I've read that beginner courses decades ago were much more thorough, and much longer. I gather most agencies are like PADI--you continue to take courses and dive regularly until you are really good--This means getting to Rescue course. The basics to being a good safe diver have to be the same for all agencies. PADI takes a lot of flak because of being the largest and being a (non-publicly traded) private company, which means they have an objective of making money. One can debate whether that makes PADI worse than others or not. I am not familar with the business/marketing practices of other agencies and how they differ from PADI on that. Information welcome.
 
He is not. Also, the fact that he's teaching both GUE and PADI indicates that he's not a 100% born and bred PADI instructor, which was one of my initial points.

And you missed my point. The owner of the stores is actually himself certified to teach for GUE, NAUI, PADI, CMAS, YMCA, PDIC, IANTD, NSS-CDS, and the NACD. As the owner of the stores, with an eye toward quality, which of those agencies did he choose for his stores? (BTW, He himself doesn't do the instruction.)
 
And you missed my point. The owner of the stores is actually himself certified to teach for GUE, NAUI, PADI, CMAS, YMCA, PDIC, IANTD, NSS-CDS, and the NACD. As the owner of the stores, with an eye toward quality, which of those agencies did he choose for his stores? (BTW, He himself doesn't do the instruction.)

I might as well. There is demand for the PADI brand. But I can almost guarantee that the quality in that program comes from the non-PADI alphabet soup, which was my point in the first place - the best PADI instructors I know learned to be the best instructors from someone else.
 
I might as well. There is demand for the PADI brand. But I can almost guarantee that the quality in that program comes from the non-PADI alphabet soup, which was my point in the first place - the best PADI instructors I know learned to be the best instructors from someone else.

But the same can be said for instructors teaching for any agency ... including GUE ... because the quality comes from within, not from the choice of agency.

Prior to becoming an instructor I held cards from four different agencies. I've added two more agencies and several more certifications since then.

I think most instructors do.

It's rare to find a dive instructor who only has c-cards from the agency they're teaching for, with the probable exception of the zero-to-hero types ... and the majority of those should be avoided regardless of what agency they're teaching for.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

Back
Top Bottom