Is learning from PADI that bad?

[drrich2]

Thal, given that Scripps program certified divers are probably numbered in at best the high hundreds, and that PADI divers are numbered in the hundreds of thousands, a direct comparison of numbers of fatalities is not very useful.

From other threads it has been my understanding, perhaps in error, that a lot of the Scripps trainees are science divers; people who would have higher average intelligence, formal education, professionalism and a tendency toward a disciplined, formal approach to accomplishing goals than the average PADI-applicant dropping in at his local dive shop because he thought scuba diving might be fun. And once trained, I suspect the Scripp's graduate is apt to dive with other professionals in a professional role that emphasizes responsibility.

Now, I figure the Scripps approach is much more thorough than a typical mainstream OW course, so I'm not contesting that.

Even so, it reminds me of conversations over whether premium brand-name 'Ivy League' schools like Harvard are a much better value proposition than regular state colleges. It's been argued that the caliber of student 'winning' entry to Harvard (or similar) is so high that those students were going to succeed well whether they went 'Ivy League' or not.

I don't think the success of the Scripp's model can be wholly attributed to high caliber students and a professional culture amongst that diving community, but might this account for some of it?

Richard.

 

[SeaHorse81]

I think some get into the idea that they owe the agency some kind of loyalty above what is really required.

Now that you mention it, I get that sense sometimes too, from some posts I see on SB. If that is true, I'd make the point that this may be peculiar to the dive industry, and the question would be, why? For instance, I have college degrees and I work in the fields for which I have trained, but I feel no connection to my institutions of education other than that I attended for a time in the past and moved on. I feel no pressure to do anything in any particular way because of where I was educated or what/how I was taught, nor do I think the institutions I attended are the only ones with worthwhile services. What I do is a function of what I have done with the education I received, rather than me becoming an extension of the institutions and their work.

I'd have to admit that I initially felt some loyalty to PADI because it was the source of my first certification. I looked on other agencies as suspect and most likely inferior, and I don't even know why I did that. It was quite a long time before I realized that other agencies had good information as well and sometimes, even better information. I felt a reluctance to look outside the PADI world that I have never felt about anywhere else I've received education/information.

I'm curious as to why this is, but I think the more important idea is to look at any dive training agency as just another educational institution. Go in as a consumer and get the best bang for your buck that you can, then go out in the world and use it in the way that most fits what you want to do and what kind of diver you want to be.

 

[iguana751]

Now that you mention it, I get that sense sometimes too, from some posts I see on SB. If that is true, I'd make the point that this may be peculiar to the dive industry, and the question would be, why? For instance, I have college degrees and I work in the fields for which I have trained, but I feel no connection to my institutions of education other than that I attended for a time in the past and moved on. I feel no pressure to do anything in any particular way because of where I was educated or what/how I was taught, nor do I think the institutions I attended are the only ones with worthwhile services. What I do is a function of what I have done with the education I received, rather than me becoming an extension of the institutions and their work.

I'd have to admit that I initially felt some loyalty to PADI because it was the source of my first certification. I looked on other agencies as suspect and most likely inferior, and I don't even know why I did that. It was quite a long time before I realized that other agencies had good information as well and sometimes, even better information. I felt a reluctance to look outside the PADI world that I have never felt about anywhere else I've received education/information.

I'm curious as to why this is, but I think the more important idea is to look at any dive training agency as just another educational institution. Go in as a consumer and get the best bang for your buck that you can, then go out in the world and use it in the way that most fits what you want to do and what kind of diver you want to be.

That is the way I felt as well. I started with SSI and as I gained more experience I found a PADI
shop that provided better training than the SSI shop that I started with. I think it is important to find a shop/instructor that provides the training that you are looking for instead of just saying that one agency is better than another. Unfortunately sometimes we need some diving experience before we know what a good shop/instructor is.

 

[DCBC]

So perhaps we all really need the Rodney King Rule -- "Can't we all just get along?"

Thanks Peter. I suppose each of us has various experiences in life. If I purchased a number of toys for Christmas from a particular company and each of them didn't work when they were opened, I would tend to feel a certain way about that manufacturer. A 'reputation' has been established. I wouldn't however take a negative view of the salesperson that sold me the product.

I was a PADI Instructor for 13 years and owned and operated a PADI Training Facility. I had a number of discussions with its Co-founder (I also had a U.S. Diver dealership) and extensively with PADI Management. When I was first certified as a PADI Instructor, I worked with them to aid PADI's expansion into Canada. As a Director of the Ontario Underwater Council, I facilitated PADI seminars at Underwater Canada. During this time, I lobbied PADI to raise its standards, but I became aware that they were the lowest in the industry by design.

It was not my intention to feel anything but positively towards PADI. Unfortunately, they continued in a particular direction. Perhaps they have changed completely since I left; but you know the tree by the fruit it bears.

I have nothing against any SCUBA Instructor. I will however continue to be critical of any diving certification Agency that advocates low standards (insufficient for many diving environments) and restricts their instructors from providing what that Instructor feels is necessary for safety. I'm also aware from posts that you've made (as well as others) that many PADI Instructors look for loopholes in the standards to provide the necessary training to their students. I don't feel that this should be necessary. PADI's philosophy is different from that of many other certification agencies. Each Instructor is free to teach for any agency they choose.

When a question is posted, it can be expected that different opinions will be expressed. As they will be again and again, each time the question is posted. Be well Peter.