Interacting with sea life look but don't touch!

[MXGratefulDiver]

I'd generally agree with that ... if the animal initiates the contact, I don't see the harm. In some cases, I don't see the harm in the human initiating the contact ... but that depends on the type of creature, and if it resists or appears stressed in any way, leave it alone ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[NAM001]

Good point. I agree that the forcing of an issue is normally the problem. There are extreemists on both sides of any issue. Thre are many opinions of what is dangerous and what is not. Darwin has a way of rewarding the stupid. I agree whole hartedly with deliberate torture of creatures. I dont understand how touching a fish is akin to what is done for rodeo animals. In saying that i am looing form foth the act and the intent. With the fish is is most often a reachout to connect with ones surroundings with no harm INTENDED with a great degree of ignorance in doing so. With the rodeo its a money making act with ecucated intent to harm/torture the animal into a behavior with no concern of harm. Yet we cry "dont feed salteen crackers to the fish cause of too high sodium" and then pay to be entertained by a rodeo. Such an inconsistancy in position. Perhaps many of us need to be made to choose between 2 doors. behind one is the rig for a rodeo bull and behind the other door is a box of crackers. Which would the normal person choose?

Assuming everyone shares your values =ass u me.Trying to force your values on everyone else=ass u. Today's lesson in semantics.

---------- Post added February 25th, 2015 at 01:28 PM ----------

I like your comment because it speeks to the very nature of man. Man is driven to conqueer and become master over thier environment. To break the wild horse is the example of that. To ride the horse is the proof of that control over the beast.

I think people do it to prove their dominion over all that they see and encounter. It's a power thing.....

As for showing "dominion" over a horse....for some that is a reason for riding. For me, I spend my time on horses who enjoy what they do. It is a partnership I seek, not dominion.

Where is the partnership in poking an animal NEEDLESSLY? I will kill what I eat, but I won't torture it first.

 

[diver 85]

I love the groupers in the Caymans. Even though they were trained to approach humans by being fed, it is a thrill when they initiate contact. Going back to my original post here, if the animal initiates contact, I have no problem with it, at all, as long as it is careful and not harming the animal. Patting with a bare hand is definitely preferable to a gloved hand, as gloves have more potential for harming the slime coat.

Unfortunately, some of these groupers, notably Ben, in the 70's, get speared for being so easy to approach. They are tasty, after all.

It is the non sought out attention that bothers me. The chasing, the grabbing, the poking of animals out of their cover.

yep Allison, that grouper in above pic has probably been petted thousands of times---& still alive & very healthy......

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I like your comment because it speeks to the very nature of man. Man is driven to conqueer and become master over thier environment. To break the wild horse is the example of that. To ride the horse is the proof of that control over the beast.

I would say that depends entirely upon the horse and the human ... last time I rode a horse it caught me "relaxing" a bit and tossed me ass over teakettle over its neck. I ended up laying on the ground, staring up at a horse that was ... I swear ... laughing at me.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Dr. Lecter]

I would say that depends entirely upon the horse and the human ... last time I rode a horse it caught me "relaxing" a bit and tossed me ass over teakettle over its neck. I ended up laying on the ground, staring up at a horse that was ... I swear ... laughing at me.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Which might be why he said "to ride the horse" rather than "to inattentively sit upon and be thrown by the horse."

In any event, I'm all for not riding creatures that need to return to the surface for air at their own pace. And I'll generally not bother something that's actively trying to escape unless I intend to eat it. But giving your local sea turtle a friendly scratch behind the ears as you pass by is just good manners to apologize for your light having woken him up in the first place. It's something like a $5000 fine and the turtle might bite the everloving crap out of you if he/she is in a bad mood, but it's hard to make the case that it's bad for the animal in any meaningful way.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

... there's one in every crowd ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Dr. Lecter]

... there's one in every crowd ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Pedantic linguist or turtle tickler?

 

[Allison Finch]

yep Allison, that grouper in above pic has probably been petted thousands of times---& still alive & very healthy......

I have succombed to the Cayman groupers, myself. This fish followed me the whole dive and kept getting under my arms and into my BCD. Finally, at the end of the dive, I gave in to the urge. That dang fish even rolled over for a belly scratch. I only got the one photo, though. So, I am totally NOT immune. Never said I was. This guy followed me all the way to the dive platform.





As for the comment about only riding horses for the power of domination, you obviously don't ride. Those who do will understand the partnership that develops between the two. If you don't understand, you won't understand.

 

[Maresia]

unless you are in a situation where you can help release a line caught etc...I don't think it is ever okay to touch.. We as divers have the priviledge to be able to be under the water for as long as the tank will allows us and therefore, are only meer spectators to this amazing world. We have no right to grab, hold or tickle anything. We do not know the stress we inflict on the life there, and nor do we know how we effect them. Worst, I think when working, our students/divers/clients etc. will do as we do...(even sometimes when they shouldn't) and will see this as okay.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I wonder if we don't sometimes place too much emphasis on stress. I once watched a red rock crab grab ahold of a kelp crab, yank its arms off one by one, and eat them. I have to wonder how much stress this caused the kelp crab, who was being held helplessly as it was all happening. I pondered whether or not I should stop this cruel act ... and decided that no ... this is what life is really like down there. Everyone eventually becomes food for someone else. Sometimes they even kill it first. Compared to that, I wonder how much stress a diver really causes.

Sure, be responsible. They're not toys, they're living creatures. Don't cause harm merely for the sake of entertainment. But sometimes I think the "no touch" policy goes a bit to an extreme that it doesn't really need to. As in most things, the application of common sense is probably a better approach than a platitude. For sure, if you feel strongly about it, don't do it ... but I'd prefer to reserve my judgments to the situation, rather than some blanket policy ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)