Instructor bent after running out of air at 40m
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Dan
Contributor
wgw04024
Contributor
So was this event ever talked about here when it happened, before now?
Sounds like rubbish to me.
Sounds like rubbish to me.
Wookie
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Scuba Instructor
I feel at least 50% stupid for having read the article. Thanks, y'all.
One thing I try to teach my children is that you can learn from your own mistakes, but it's much better if you can learn from someone else's. That's extremely hard to do, especially if others are unwilling to share their "teachable" experiences.
Believe it or not, I've seen very experienced divers make stupid mistakes. I seem to be the only one immune to those.
Having both performed a lot of underwater recoveries and read about them in the papers over the years, I'm intimately familiar with the accuracy of the media's reporting of underwater events, especially when the articles aren't targeting other divers (as appears to be the case here).
Not defending these divers, nor the article. Just saying.
Believe it or not, I've seen very experienced divers make stupid mistakes. I seem to be the only one immune to those.
Having both performed a lot of underwater recoveries and read about them in the papers over the years, I'm intimately familiar with the accuracy of the media's reporting of underwater events, especially when the articles aren't targeting other divers (as appears to be the case here).
Not defending these divers, nor the article. Just saying.
Melanie White
Contributor
I am a new diver have been open water certified with 8 dives. This doesn't make any sense. I was taught to watch my gauge give dm warning at 1000 and start coming up at 500 at least.
Efka76
Contributor
So, i spent 40 min. of my time to hear that podcast and then wrote this comment. This story stinks from the beginning. Let's start in chronological order:
1) Story starts from these words: "Obviously being young you want to kind of push the limits a little bit". At least for me it indicates that 4 young guys decided to push the limits and see what maximum depth they can reach. Also, all of them are young (e.g. 21 y.o) and "experienced". If i get drivers licence and drive a car for 1-2 years, can i sit into F-1 car and start competing.... i would say no but these type of guys will say "oh, yes".
2) "There were four of us on the dive. We'd all planned thoroughly before the dive obviously. But what happened was a disparity between what was planned in terms of breathing rates and what actually happened on the dive. So, a couple of people ran out of air before they'd planned to run out of air, if you know what I mean". If you plan properly, you have appropriate training and certification and you are on instructor level you will definitely have First aid kit, oxygen on board. Also, 1 or 2 spare tanks on a rope in the water (as you are planning deep dive). Running out of air for instructor means that planning, judgement was poor and person forgot, does not know or does not care about basic rules (when you are diving you ALWAYS check SPG, and not to exceed NDL time, maximum operating depth). Now 2 people run out of air during dive.
3) If you are instructors and usually you take your clients to 30 m. depth you usually should have a gut feeling how much time you can dive in such profile. Now 2 persons completely run out of air in ordinary conditions (no entanglement, no overhead environment, no equipment malfunction mentioned". To completely run out of air during ordinary recreational dive and in absence of above mentioned issues is absolutely unheard. If you see that you have 70 bar of air you show the sign and start normal ascent. with proper safety stop you will still have approximately 50 bar of air at the surface. But 2 instructors completely deplete air in the middle of dive...... this situation sounds more then absurd even for beginner Open Water diver. Here we talk about INSTRUCTOR level people.
4) paralysed INSTRUCTOR level persons then says "From there we were breathing breath for breath off of the two remaining tanks that had air in them, and we were coming up slowly as you have to do with scuba diving, so we were coming up slowly". I would assume that if malfunction happens for 2 people and both of them deplete air, their budies will provide octopuses and all 4 people will start ascent. Using wording "breath for breath of the remaining tanks" seems that they did not have octopuses and shared the same regulators or INSTRUCTOR level person is not able to properly express his thoughts in English which is his native language".
5) "And then we got to about 25, 30 metres safely, and then from then we were all out of air". According to PADI standards normal ascent rate is 18 meters per minute.... so, for you to ascent from 40 m to 25 meters it would take 1 min. If 2 people using the same 2 you would deplete air twice faster.... however, according to this moron the remaining 2 tanks became empty as well. In this case conclusion is pretty obvious that all 4 divers had the same dive profile and used air almost the same.... as remaining air in 2 tanks was only residual when the first 2 tanks were fully depleted.
5) It is really unbelievable that 4 INSTRUCTOR level divers descend to 40 m , dive and nobody is looking at SPG. when 2 instructors FULLY DEPLETE tanks they decide to ascend..... This guys is IDIOT if he thinks that somebody who has even little brain would believe this story. This situation could happen only in case if all 4 divers went for very deep dive (maybe 60 m or 65 m). In this case everything adds up: you divers want to push limits, they did not expect that they are going to deplete air much faster; all of them depleted air almost at the same time when they were at appr. 40 m. depth.
6) There is a question why such absurd story is told to podcast listeners. In my opinion this story was told to DAN or other insurer, however, insurance is valid if you dive to depth to which you are certified and with appropriate equipment and gas mix. If you are certified to dive to 40 m., however, without appropriate certification, equipment and gas mix you will dive to 60 m. you will have to pay from your own pocket for your medical treatment. I am 100% sure that they never showed their dive computers to insurers and made up such absurd story.
7) "Yeah, as we're all dive professionals we've got extensive training in how to communicate under water and things like that. There are also little slates and pencils that we all carry with our dive gear so that if we can't communicate with hand signals we can write down what's going on and get the message across to everyone that's diving." If you are LOW on air you show simple sign, get octopus from your buddy and start immediate ascent. You do not write stories on slates. Especially when 4 divers are at 25 m depth and there is NO AIR IN TANKS.
8) "And from there finally got to the shore helped out by some surface support people that we had there, and popped into the back of a truck and then whisked off to the recompression chamber, the hyperbaric chamber" In article it was mentioned that they were diving from the boat, however, here they went to the shore. Also, nobody called paramedics, nobody called to DAN and they imediately went to hyperbaric chamber (how did they know that this chamber is working, that it is not bussy, that tehy will be accepted). 4 Instructors breached even simplest rules which they had to know from Rescue Diver and lower courses. Also, instructors did not have available first aid kid with 100% oxygene when properly planning DEEP DIVE.
9) Then this guy is explaining about DCI and other things and says "Now, what happened in my situation we had a rapid ascent from 35 metres or so up to the surface". Wait wait wait.... previously you mentioned 25-30 m. but now you are saying 35 m.???? This just confirms my statement that they dive was way deeper than 40 meters.
10) Then he talks about air " you can feel the breathing getting tighter through that, so you know the tank's just about dry". This situation could happen with unbalanced regulator.... So, deep dive with unbalanced regulators.... OK
11) "Now, unfortunately in Cyprus there's only a couple of recompression chambers for the island and my nearest one was about a three, four hour drive away" - why nobody called DAN, with helicopter you would reach this chamber much faster than during 4 hours.....
12) Then about rehabilitation ".... and obviously the doctors at a place called Divers Alert Network, who have my diving insurance and safety stuff." - This is 100% obvious that guys exceeded their limits, ended up in such situation, know that insurance will not cover treatment costs. That's why they went to recompression chamber by themselves and then made up this stupid and unbelievable story to DAN.
So, my conclusion is the following: 4 morons pushed limits to the maximums, cheated insurance, told a lot of ******** to everyone as almost every statement is a lie and 1 idiot got a very well deserved paralysis. Also, i hope that DAN lawyers will reopen the case and will ask them to pay for treatment.
1) Story starts from these words: "Obviously being young you want to kind of push the limits a little bit". At least for me it indicates that 4 young guys decided to push the limits and see what maximum depth they can reach. Also, all of them are young (e.g. 21 y.o) and "experienced". If i get drivers licence and drive a car for 1-2 years, can i sit into F-1 car and start competing.... i would say no but these type of guys will say "oh, yes".
2) "There were four of us on the dive. We'd all planned thoroughly before the dive obviously. But what happened was a disparity between what was planned in terms of breathing rates and what actually happened on the dive. So, a couple of people ran out of air before they'd planned to run out of air, if you know what I mean". If you plan properly, you have appropriate training and certification and you are on instructor level you will definitely have First aid kit, oxygen on board. Also, 1 or 2 spare tanks on a rope in the water (as you are planning deep dive). Running out of air for instructor means that planning, judgement was poor and person forgot, does not know or does not care about basic rules (when you are diving you ALWAYS check SPG, and not to exceed NDL time, maximum operating depth). Now 2 people run out of air during dive.
3) If you are instructors and usually you take your clients to 30 m. depth you usually should have a gut feeling how much time you can dive in such profile. Now 2 persons completely run out of air in ordinary conditions (no entanglement, no overhead environment, no equipment malfunction mentioned". To completely run out of air during ordinary recreational dive and in absence of above mentioned issues is absolutely unheard. If you see that you have 70 bar of air you show the sign and start normal ascent. with proper safety stop you will still have approximately 50 bar of air at the surface. But 2 instructors completely deplete air in the middle of dive...... this situation sounds more then absurd even for beginner Open Water diver. Here we talk about INSTRUCTOR level people.
4) paralysed INSTRUCTOR level persons then says "From there we were breathing breath for breath off of the two remaining tanks that had air in them, and we were coming up slowly as you have to do with scuba diving, so we were coming up slowly". I would assume that if malfunction happens for 2 people and both of them deplete air, their budies will provide octopuses and all 4 people will start ascent. Using wording "breath for breath of the remaining tanks" seems that they did not have octopuses and shared the same regulators or INSTRUCTOR level person is not able to properly express his thoughts in English which is his native language".
5) "And then we got to about 25, 30 metres safely, and then from then we were all out of air". According to PADI standards normal ascent rate is 18 meters per minute.... so, for you to ascent from 40 m to 25 meters it would take 1 min. If 2 people using the same 2 you would deplete air twice faster.... however, according to this moron the remaining 2 tanks became empty as well. In this case conclusion is pretty obvious that all 4 divers had the same dive profile and used air almost the same.... as remaining air in 2 tanks was only residual when the first 2 tanks were fully depleted.
5) It is really unbelievable that 4 INSTRUCTOR level divers descend to 40 m , dive and nobody is looking at SPG. when 2 instructors FULLY DEPLETE tanks they decide to ascend..... This guys is IDIOT if he thinks that somebody who has even little brain would believe this story. This situation could happen only in case if all 4 divers went for very deep dive (maybe 60 m or 65 m). In this case everything adds up: you divers want to push limits, they did not expect that they are going to deplete air much faster; all of them depleted air almost at the same time when they were at appr. 40 m. depth.
6) There is a question why such absurd story is told to podcast listeners. In my opinion this story was told to DAN or other insurer, however, insurance is valid if you dive to depth to which you are certified and with appropriate equipment and gas mix. If you are certified to dive to 40 m., however, without appropriate certification, equipment and gas mix you will dive to 60 m. you will have to pay from your own pocket for your medical treatment. I am 100% sure that they never showed their dive computers to insurers and made up such absurd story.
7) "Yeah, as we're all dive professionals we've got extensive training in how to communicate under water and things like that. There are also little slates and pencils that we all carry with our dive gear so that if we can't communicate with hand signals we can write down what's going on and get the message across to everyone that's diving." If you are LOW on air you show simple sign, get octopus from your buddy and start immediate ascent. You do not write stories on slates. Especially when 4 divers are at 25 m depth and there is NO AIR IN TANKS.
8) "And from there finally got to the shore helped out by some surface support people that we had there, and popped into the back of a truck and then whisked off to the recompression chamber, the hyperbaric chamber" In article it was mentioned that they were diving from the boat, however, here they went to the shore. Also, nobody called paramedics, nobody called to DAN and they imediately went to hyperbaric chamber (how did they know that this chamber is working, that it is not bussy, that tehy will be accepted). 4 Instructors breached even simplest rules which they had to know from Rescue Diver and lower courses. Also, instructors did not have available first aid kid with 100% oxygene when properly planning DEEP DIVE.
9) Then this guy is explaining about DCI and other things and says "Now, what happened in my situation we had a rapid ascent from 35 metres or so up to the surface". Wait wait wait.... previously you mentioned 25-30 m. but now you are saying 35 m.???? This just confirms my statement that they dive was way deeper than 40 meters.
10) Then he talks about air " you can feel the breathing getting tighter through that, so you know the tank's just about dry". This situation could happen with unbalanced regulator.... So, deep dive with unbalanced regulators.... OK
11) "Now, unfortunately in Cyprus there's only a couple of recompression chambers for the island and my nearest one was about a three, four hour drive away" - why nobody called DAN, with helicopter you would reach this chamber much faster than during 4 hours.....
12) Then about rehabilitation ".... and obviously the doctors at a place called Divers Alert Network, who have my diving insurance and safety stuff." - This is 100% obvious that guys exceeded their limits, ended up in such situation, know that insurance will not cover treatment costs. That's why they went to recompression chamber by themselves and then made up this stupid and unbelievable story to DAN.
So, my conclusion is the following: 4 morons pushed limits to the maximums, cheated insurance, told a lot of ******** to everyone as almost every statement is a lie and 1 idiot got a very well deserved paralysis. Also, i hope that DAN lawyers will reopen the case and will ask them to pay for treatment.
But how can you say that?
"They now know that what happened was a disparity between what was planned in terms of breathing rates and what actually happened on the dive.
It was unpredictable."
!!!!!!!!!
"They now know that what happened was a disparity between what was planned in terms of breathing rates and what actually happened on the dive.
It was unpredictable."
!!!!!!!!!
I think that we are way over-analyzing this. From what I can tell, the PRIMARY problem that caused this horrible accident wasn't dive planning, lack of surface O2, lack of hung emergency deco tanks, decompression strategy, pushing depth limits or anything else. It was one very simple thing - lack of situational awareness and gas monitoring.
No matter how stupid the plan or lack thereof, if you have a vague idea of what your rock bottom ascent pressure is, that awareness alone can cover for a multitude of errors. Those people who went OOG at depth didn't have blown LP hoses. If they suddenly found themselves OOG at 40m, it was because they weren't paying attention to the one thing that they needed to pay attention to.
I don't care what you think your SAC rate is going to be ahead of time, the only thing that matters in OC diving is knowing when the SPG says it's time to leave. No need for slates to communicate about that.
No matter how stupid the plan or lack thereof, if you have a vague idea of what your rock bottom ascent pressure is, that awareness alone can cover for a multitude of errors. Those people who went OOG at depth didn't have blown LP hoses. If they suddenly found themselves OOG at 40m, it was because they weren't paying attention to the one thing that they needed to pay attention to.
I don't care what you think your SAC rate is going to be ahead of time, the only thing that matters in OC diving is knowing when the SPG says it's time to leave. No need for slates to communicate about that.
The only thing about the story that does NOT surprise me is that they were instructors. I am not an instructor or even a divemaster, but I spent some time on one of those islands known as instructor factories, where I heard tales of newly minted instructors "secretly" doing dives that you and I would think unsafe, like doing bounce dives well past recreational limits on an Al 80 "just to test themselves."
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