Discover scuba dive with my wife and friends against my better judgement

[VikingDives]

Fourth quarter 2001 training bulletin. During OW checkout dives it is indeed OK to take students through short swim-throughs provided they are adequately briefed and agree to it. PADI considers swim-throughs to be open water and not overhead environments, although you will not find that stated in any official document. I found out by discussing the wreck diving standards with them.

Exactly. When I went through my IDC, my course director made specific mention of the "fact" that it was a standards violation to take OW divers through any type of swim-through. One would think that in the last 22 years, they could have clarified the standards.

 

[mac66]

In all seriousness though, I will never recommend or take part in a discover scuba again.

I've been involved in 4 discovery dives. One by myself in Grand Cayman, two with my kids in Curacao and Roatan and once with my brothers in Roatan. All were great experiences. I wouldn't judge or condemn all Discovery dives by one bad experience.

 

[boulderjohn]

Exactly. When I went through my IDC, my course director made specific mention of the "fact" that it was a standards violation to take OW divers through any type of swim-through. One would think that in the last 22 years, they could have clarified the standards.

You would think that, wouldn't you?

When I had my back and forth on that topic, they asked if I could provide clarifying language. I did. They liked it and asked if they could use it in future course revisions. Soon after that (3rd quarter Undersea Journal a couple years ago) they published a short article with the subtitle Thinking like a Diver with a variation of my language as it related to wreck diving. Yes, they gave me credit for it. In theory, it should make it into future course revisions.

 

[JonnieB]

A little back story on myself, I’m a full cave diver and dive frequently, and my wife has only ever snorkeled...

As an experienced diver, why wouldn't you give your wife a DSD dive yourself...with your cave diver training, you're probably a more experienced diver than most resort DMs? Any appropriate shore dive location could be used and I'm sure wife would much rather have you take her than this psycho DM. If she had a good experience and wanted to pursue diving, then seek out the services of a dive professional for OW certification.

 

[TMHeimer]

As an experienced diver, why wouldn't you give your wife a DSD dive yourself...with your cave diver training, you're probably a more experienced diver than most resort DMs? Any appropriate shore dive location could be used and I'm sure wife would much rather have you take her than this psycho DM. If she had a good experience and wanted to pursue diving, then seek out the services of a dive professional for OW certification.

Of course that makes sense, though of course no agency or instructor would advise doing that. Any diver (or anyone) can do whatever they want regarding showing people how to dive. There are no laws (at least in most countries). And the amount of time spent on various skills before the dive can be extensive, as opposed to maybe an hour with DSD. Just make sure it's more than what I mentioned about a friend's total advice to his wife being "Here, breathe through this thing". When I was Rescue certified I went over a couple of things with my then OW buddy to insure he knew what to do should I be in trouble. I didn't care that I had no Pro status at the time.

 

[JonnieB]

Of course that makes sense, though of course no agency or instructor would advise doing that. Any diver (or anyone) can do whatever they want regarding showing people how to dive. There are no laws (at least in most countries). And the amount of time spent on various skills before the dive can be extensive, as opposed to maybe an hour with DSD. Just make sure it's more than what I mentioned about a friend's total advice to his wife being "Here, breathe through this thing". When I was Rescue certified I went over a couple of things with my then OW buddy to insure he knew what to do should I be in trouble. I didn't care that I had no Pro status at the time.

The only skills taught before DSD are:

1. Don't hold your breath
2. Mask clearing
3. Regulator recovery
4. Inflate/deflate BCD
5. Practice regulator breathing.

These can be competently taught by someone with advanced diving skills for a shallow dive to 3-4 meters.

 

[happy-diver]

I'm sorry never aplogise, I'm sorry never apologise, I'm sorry never apologise, I'm sorry never apologise...

For a brief minute I thought that you started to write in normal English without your enigmatic poetic style but then I realized that you just did a copy&paste of the OP. What a let down.

 

[TMHeimer]

The only skills taught before DSD are:

1. Don't hold your breath
2. Mask clearing
3. Regulator recovery
4. Inflate/deflate BCD
5. Practice regulator breathing.

These can be competently taught by someone with advanced diving skills for a shallow dive to 3-4 meters.

Of course they can. The only one that any active diver may not practice on their own diving is regulator recovery-- ie. the two specific ways to do this. I don't even practice it myself because I bungee the 2nd stage around my head-- can't loose it, but mainly in case I ever went unconsious diving solo.
Mask clearing can be done several ways (different angles, one-handed, etc.). A certified pro would probably teach it the exact by the book way.

 

[BoltSnap]

These can be competently taught by someone with advanced diving skills for a shallow dive to 3-4 meters.

This isn't true at all. An "advanced diver" isn't qualified or trained on how to teach skills and how to evaluate students. Being a super duper advanced master diver extraordinaire has no relationship with being qualified to teach any skill at all. Few years ago, one such "advanced" diver tried to teach his buddy how to dive and only managed to hurt his buddy where he can't dive for the rest of his life (middle ear injury). Similar scenario about twenty years ago, a father tried to teach his son the basic diving skills in their 8 foot swimming pool in NY, the son almost drowned and was taken to a hospital and had to undergo medical treatment. The son was traumatized after this fiasco and never wanted to dive at all after his ordeal.

I certainly don't want to be the buddy or the father dealing with my son's or buddy's injury because of my mistakes and doing something I wasn't authorized and qualified to do. The weight of the guilt and shame is way too much to bear.

If you don't like how a professional does their job, find another one to do it for you, don't try to do it yourself especially when you aren't qualified to do it.

 

[TMHeimer]

This isn't true at all. An "advanced diver" isn't qualified or trained on how to teach skills and how to evaluate students. Being a super duper advanced master diver extraordinaire has not relationship to being qualified to teach any skill at all. Few years ago, one such "advanced" diver tried to teach his buddy how to dive and only managed to hurt his buddy so he can't dive for the rest of his life (middle ear injury). Similar scenario about twenty years ago, a father tried to teach his son the basic diving skills in their 8 foot swimming pool in NY, the son almost drowned and was taken to a hospital and had to under go medical treatment. The son was traumatized after this ordeal and never wanted to dive at all.

I certainly don't want to be the buddy or the father dealing with my son's or buddy's injury because of my mistakes and doing something I wasn't authorized and qualified to do. The weight of the guilt and shame is way too much to bear.

If you don't like how a professional does their job, find another one to do it for you, don't try to do it yourself especially when you aren't qualified to do it.

Some good points, but there are exceptions. Learning "how" to teach is something a lot of time is spent on during a 4 year degree that produces school teachers. A lot less time on producing scuba instructors, though I believe they must demonstrate some sort of classroom management in the IDC. DMs are not really taught how to teach, but are shown how to teach the individual skills to individual students. So, it varies.

Many musicians give private lessons on their instrument having no education at all on "how to teach". They get their students based on their playing ability and word of mouth.
If an "advanced" diver knows his/her skills well and observes safety standards (be logical with conditions, etc.), it is probably fine for them to show people the DSD skills. I mean, someone could show someone how to ski improperly, resulting in a serious accident.