Input on our Accident and Incidents Forum... What do you want? How do you want it?

[boulderjohn]

We're not averse to change, and a number of negative comments on FB actually prompted this conversation.

Perhaps a summary is in order.

I know some of the toxicity you are experiencing ,and, as you know, I am experiencing some of it there as well.

 

[DandyDon]

@DandyDon You seem to like to be the "First on Scene" and report a whole lotta stuff. Much of which seems to fan the flames but not really appropriate or valuable....

Yeah, ok. I guess you'd like controlled reporting. I stand by my earlier explanation...

Someone needs to bring the news here for discussion, and while I prefer seeing others beat me here with the reports, I do what I can to contribute.

 

[Unbent]

Yeah, ok. I guess you'd like controlled reporting. I stand by my earlier explanation...

Dandydon and all others.
Keep up the good work, we need reporting of the incidents no matter what the outcome. When someone is involved in an accident or incident even the most minute we may lear something, even if it is we all have a debt to pay... What we do (according to statistic not as dangerous as bowling) but none the less underwater, is life threatening from any form within these confines so I read and learn and except the possibilities that I may be written about in this form as I've written about others...
Thank you for your and all the others contributions.
Ben.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I generally come to this forum when someone from my area, or someone I know personally, has been involved in an accident. I'm coming primarily to see what, if anything, I can learn about the circumstances.

I used to visit more often ... out of a desire to share what I've learned from my experiences with others. I don't do much of that anymore, primarily because threads usually follow a predictable pattern, and there is little to be shared or learned after about the first half-dozen or so posts. I can usually tell what someone's going to say as soon as I see their avatar. So there's just not much to say that would have value.

I can't offer any suggestions for changes, as I don't know that they would be any improvement over what we already have. It is what it is. Sometimes you can get something out of the discussion ... or contribute something. But as soon as I see the thread take the usual direction, I just check out.

Thanks, Pete, for soliciting the input ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[drrich2]

A number of people have expressed that reading A&I threads has been gainful to them.

Despite his criticisms, Captain Jim Wyatt has put forth reasons why 'those in the know' will not consistently come here & give 'the full story' (or at least what insider info. they know). Other's posts indicated BSAC & DAN reporting don't fulfill the intended purpose of the A&I forum section effectively, so as alternatives, they don't negate its role.

Dumpster Diver has mentioned how in instructor training they were taught to minimize risk to students. I think in other threads another poster has pointed out that the scuba industry prefers to send prospective customers the message about how safe diving is, instead of how dangerous.

So while BoulderJohn and Captain Jim Wyatt have listed some reasons outsiders in the industry have been wary of Scuba Board, in the past and to some extent now, as I consider Wyatt's statement:

Many leaders in the dive industry disdain this type forum and view it as an attractive nuisance.

(The A&I section, or Scuba Board in general? I'm assuming the A& I section? @Capt Jim Wyatt )

I'm left with 3 thoughts.

1.) Evidently we can't trust the dive industry to tell us all we need (much less want) to know.

2.) The A&I forum serves a productive purpose for some people, even though it's not an effective 'Scuba CSI.'

3.) There are some legitimate concerns about it, some rectified pretty well (e.g.: agency bashing, dissing mainstream instructors for not teaching to 'higher' standards endorsed by a relatively small minority, etc...), and some probably not solvable (e.g.: the possibility a plaintiff's attorney might use these discussions for ammo. to sue).

Richard.

 

[The Chairman]

1.) Evidently we can't trust the dive industry to tell us all we need (much less want) to know.

2.) The A&I forum serves a productive purpose for some people, even though it's not an effective 'Scuba CSI.'

3.) There are some legitimate concerns about it, some rectified pretty well (e.g.: agency bashing, dissing mainstream instructors for not teaching to 'higher' standards endorsed by a relatively small minority, etc...), and some probably not solvable (e.g.: the possibility a plaintiff's attorney might use these discussions for ammo. to sue).

THAT! ALL THREE POINTS!!!

Bingo! Yahtzee! Gin!

 

[CuzzA]

1.) Evidently we can't trust afford how much it would cost for the dive industry to tell us all we need (much less want) to know.

FIFY.

Richard, the Internet and sites like ScubaBoard fill in many of the blanks about what we never knew. For some very experienced divers another typical fatality thread does little for them, but for new divers it answers questions, it creates questions and it keeps diving fresh on the mind for those who don't dive all the time.

 

[The Chairman]

There's no doubt, much of the dive industry is into CYA due to the litigious nature of the USA. Agencies, manufacturers and even instructors are trying to mitigate exposure. It feels almost like a conspiracy because it almost is a conspiracy. Sucks to be us.

 

[KeithG]

i have not yet read the complete thread but thought I could provide my answers for the original questions before I got distracted by the discussion (as it attempts to go down the normal SB rathole...?)

• Why do you come here?

I come here to learn about things that hopefully will make me a safer diver. This may come from identifying potential mistakes I should avoid as well as learning more about areas of scuba diving unrelated to my diving for which I have little or no knowledge. It's free training!

• Why do you post accidents and incidents? (This is especially for you, @DandyDon!)

I generally only ask for clarification about things I do not understand.

• WHAT IS OUR MISSION? (in your words, please)

"our mission" - i don't care. i have my mission as expressed above.

• Are we meeting your and the community's needs?

Yes - I have learned lots. As I get smarter I do seem to learn less?

• What are we missing and why?

Nothing that I can think of based upon value for the money. This (SB) is a free source of knowledge. It regularly surpasses my expectations.

• How can we add that?

Increase the admission price?

• What needs to be eliminated and why?

It would be wonderful to have someone else filter out the BS, but I do not expect that at the current admission price.

• How can we be more respectful to friends and survivors?

Make it harder for people to randomly stumble upon the discussions? opt in like the pub?

• Can we be more respectful without harming our mission?

No. Warn them. Here be serpents! We are all adults, make sure they understand the consequences of entrance.

• Currently, we don't allow names to be used unless released publicly first. Is this fair for the family? Is it fair for us? Is a change needed?

I do not need names to learn. Names do allow / help additional external research (which I do not do). I would be happy if names were excluded. Not naming names may make it harder for readers / mods to detect BS. But I think SB already has a fairly good BS detector.

 

[KeithG]

Yeah, ok. I guess you'd like controlled reporting. I stand by my earlier explanation...

Just catching up...

One suggestion I have for DD is for him to also post his "opinion" of the incident. My current belief is that he reacts to googler alerts and then posts with little or no input from his perspective as the "information finder" (he does avoid the issue of poster bias), We are often left to read the source info and infer our own conclusions.

Sometimes I read the related post content and then go "just a snorkerler". If I knew ahead of time...

I claim it may be more worthwile for us lazy people if the original poster "curated" the thread a bit more? This concept could be helped with a "create a post" checklist of things to think about before you create a new thread in A&I. No need for automated control, just a reminder list of things to consider when creating a new thread...