Input on our Accident and Incidents Forum... What do you want? How do you want it?

[boulderjohn]

As late as 2004 I saw training agencies with notices at DEMA decrying the interwebs and encouraging instructors to avoid ScubaBoard.

I was one of those instructors. I went through different phases of reaction to ScubaBoard back then. Sometimes I just didn't mention its existence and hoped they wouldn't find it. Sometimes I mentioned it but gave a major warning about it. This continued even after I was a member of the staff. I was an active member of the community, but I really didn't want my students to know about it.

I described the problem in my first post in this thread-- the 5-6 POV warriors and some of their "wanabes." When a new diver came to ScubaBoard and posted something--anything--in the New Divers forum, he or she would be assaulted with posts going on and on about how their instruction and instructor sucked. If someone asked a question in that forum or the Basic Scuba forum, there would follow a series of posts that essentially said, "If you have to ask such a stupid question, that shows what utterly crap instruction you had." Even as a staff member, I did not want my students to visit ScubaBoard because I knew the number one thing they would learn there that they were lucky to be alive after getting instruction from a piece of crap like me.

I said this during a moderator discussion about this problem back then, and we enacted changes that old timers will remember. We made the New Divers and Basic forums "green zones," places where those kinds of attacks were not allowed, places where people could ask any question without being attacked for not knowing the answer already. We outlawed agency bashing, which is the practice of making blind, mindless, unfounded attacks on any agency, to be distinguished from factual descriptions and discussions on specific agencies practices and policies. We made the aforementioned changes to the A & I forum. Those changes were very effective, and ScubaBoard stopped being a place that was so obviously hostile to modern open water instruction. It became safe to suggest it as a place where new divers could go to continue their growth.

Yes, the attitude toward ScubaBoard has changed since those days, but that is to a large extent because ScubaBoard recognized that it had a problem and took steps to fix it.

 

[wgw04024]

IMHO, the ideal situation would be to make only the OP and the consensus report viewable by all SB members. Everything in between would be opt-in and completely hidden. One would have to opt-in to each particular thread of interest, not the forum itself.

I really could not disagree with this kind of thinking more. It reminds me of big 'we know better' government. Maybe at the very least, A&I would be a members only area, but even then, I don't see how that makes it better.

 

[CuzzA]

It would be a bad idea. There are numerous threads on here where a witness, family member or friend signed up and contributed excellent information specifically because they found the thread in the public domain.

 

[Scorow]

A quick two cents from someone who never posts: My kids and I were certified 5 years ago and are vacation divers, diving once a year or so. I discovered SB after having done a "Discover SCUBA" dive, and read or at least scanned (over a period of time) every post on the A&I forum. I learned more there than in the certification classes, and continue to read the posts nearly daily.

I/we love to dive, and my greatest concern is that our lack of doing so regularly increases our risk. We always do refreshers before we dive (even though not required), but I believe that the reports and associated discussion in this forum help keep me somewhat focused and at least thinking during the long spells between dive trips. There is superfluous stuff to wade through to be sure (as in almost anything on the web), but the net value of this forum for someone like me is huge. For my purposes, it is great as is, and I am thankful especially for those like Ken Curtis and clownfishsydney and others who lend their perspective to the discussion.

Take this as a comment from the likely-large but mostly silent viewing audience who would really miss this place if it were gone or modified substantially.

 

[Storker]

A quick two cents from someone who never posts: My kids and I were certified 5 years ago and are vacation divers, diving once a year or so. I discovered SB after having done a "Discover SCUBA" dive, and read or at least scanned (over a period of time) every post on the A&I forum. I learned more there than in the certification classes, and continue to read the posts nearly daily.

I/we love to dive, and my greatest concern is that our lack of doing so regularly increases our risk. We always do refreshers before we dive (even though not required), but I believe that the reports and associated discussion in this forum help keep me somewhat focused and at least thinking during the long spells between dive trips. There is superfluous stuff to wade through to be sure (as in almost anything on the web), but the net value of this forum for someone like me is huge. For my purposes, it is great as is, and I am thankful especially for those like Ken Curtis and clownfishsydney and others who lend their perspective to the discussion.

Take this as a comment from the likely-large but mostly silent viewing audience who would really miss this place if it were gone or modified substantially.

This pretty well describes my attitude towards the A&I forum when I was an inexperienced OWD. "But I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now"

 

[lowviz]

I really could not disagree with this kind of thinking more. It reminds me of big 'we know better' government. Maybe at the very least, A&I would be a members only area, but even then, I don't see how that makes it better.

Government. This is the first election year that I voted for the third party nut out of utter disgust with the crap that "government" threw at my feet to vote for. If you (generic "you", not YOU) don't vote or didn't vote in protest, I have no respect for you. As for this thread, feel free to disagree with me, just my opinion. Pete asked for opinions.

The "we know better" part is over the top, though. I assume that it was just an overstatement for effect, so I won't take it personally. I don't spend much time in A&I, others love it, some even got themselves banned for it. My interest is in finding out if I knew the diver in question. Little more than that.

Nobody talks on the MidAtlantic. "Was it somebody I know, how bad was it?" There was an unreported death last year that I still don't know about. "Who, on what boat, and how bad" is all I really want to know. That information doesn't seem to come out in public where I am. My suggestion to make the original post (usually just a press release) open to all members could easily be expanded to making it public. I don't really care either way. However, more information is offered if the poster knows that he/she is in a more private setting.

Do you openly post everything you have to say or want to know, or do you offer more information via PM's? I stand my ground. Make the OP open so that it can be found by all and lightly cloak the inevitable gut-wrenching (for the families) discussion under an opt-in lid. If the OP is something that interests you, op-in.

 

[dmaziuk]

I'm sure there are reasons. Just as there is probably a reason DAN's db isn't searchable. The fact that I can't go browse all or most accident data means that to me the databases are less valuable than the scubaboard A&I forum as it exists today. If that changes, I'd be up for looking through an RSS feed of that instead of scubaboard posts or otherwise using the databases.

Until then, afaik, scubaboard is the only place to go. Despite the imperfections, I prefer it over a complete vacuum.

I think the other side of it is fake news, attacks on dive ops, and all that fun stuff we've come to expect to find on the interwebs. Over here there's probably a better chance of someone who was nearby and heard it on local news, or a friend/family member, etc. to chime in and have the story validated -- or repudiated, as the case may be. E.g. the recent Hawaii thread: without the thread here, there would've been one unsubstantiated story on TA where we all go to learn about SCUBA destinations (yeah right).

 

[The Chairman]

Take this as a comment from the likely-large but mostly silent viewing audience who would really miss this place if it were gone or modified substantially.

No changes are planned or even contemplated right now. We're not averse to change, and a number of negative comments on FB actually prompted this conversation. FB has become incredibly toxic to me as of late even to the point of me possibly deleting my personal profile.

ScubaBoard is and will always be an experiment. We try things. Sometimes they work, possibly even as intended. Often, they do not. If they don't work out we either revert back or try something completely different. It's not like there's a manual for this out on the web. We have to make it up as we go. To do that honestly and coherently, it's important that we have these open discussions from time to time. There's enough change foisted on us due to software issues such as obsolescence and vulnerabilities. Most of the forum hates change. We haven't changed back here and with the amount of negatives I've recently encountered, I thought a discussion in order. I really don't think we could ever satisfy the negative Nancys out there. I certainly didn't want to dismiss their possibly germane issues out of hand. Whether you're diving Nitrox or trying to run a busy forum, it's best not to assume anything. Check and double check. Adjust as warranted, but always check.

 

[Johnoly]

No changes are planned or even contemplated right now....

 

[lowviz]

...//... FB has become incredibly toxic to me as of late even to the point of me possibly deleting my personal profile. ...

That would make a great SB thread...

So what is it? Dis, agencies, uber divers, random stupidity? SB is your oyster, use it. None of us have that option, would be fun to watch/participate.