Input Needed for Blue Hole Improvements

[ABQdiver]

I read that to be $20 for the weekend. It doesn't really state that or per day rate, so I guess it's still up in the air. Of course, this is the 2005 "study", which doesn't necessarily mean that all of the recommendations will be implemented.

I certainly hope some of them DO NOT get used......

 

[RonFrank]

Admission for divers will be $20 on weekends and holidays and $15 during the week. In addition, a special rate of $25 will be charged for dives scheduled outside of normal operating hours (with a minimum charge of $100).

This is about as clear as mud.

Here are some random things I pulled from the plan that I thought were interesting. I also found that in one chart they indicate that 50%+ of the divers were from NM. In a earlier section they indicate that the majority of divers come from CO.

Even in winter, divers need only wear a thin wet suit (or dry suit) because of the
relatively warm waters (64 F year-round).

According to Richard Delgado, the city is also losing a lot of revenue due to divers not paying for their permits. He estimates that as many as 50% of divers during the weekdays are diving without permits.

Because there is a lack of on-site security personnel, scuba divers are diligent in transporting their extra gear back to their cars and locking their cars.

many do not want to return to Santa Rosa because: a) there’s nothing to do in Santa Rosa and b) there are no facilities at the Blue Hole.

Thin wet suit!

Currently we don't have to transport our gear *BACK* anywhere, but we do all lock our cars, at least in the evenings.

Nothing to do in Santa Rosa is an understatement, unless you are there in the Summer, and like to fish or boat.

 

[ABQdiver]

This is about as clear as mud.

Here are some random things I pulled from the plan that I thought were interesting. I also found that in one chart they indicate that 50%+ of the divers were from NM. In a earlier section they indicate that the majority of divers come from CO.



Thin wet suit!

Currently we don't have to transport our gear *BACK* anywhere, but we do all lock our cars, at least in the evenings.

Nothing to do in Santa Rosa is an understatement, unless you are there in the Summer, and like to fish or boat.

I got a chuckle from that line as well!!

 

[DandyDon]

We project that, in the first year, there will be 10,400 paying divers during normal hours

And when you are wrong, you have a good excuse lined up.

$8 a weekend is fine if they'd bother to show up to accept it. They don't so I seldom have paid; not my fault. I spoke with Delgago on the phone about this once, decided I should shut up, paid for a year then - once.

This is not Huntsville an hour from Houston. They won't get it and they will severely hurt the sport here. I guess they will cut group deal and not care about us divers who just want to come dive.

 

[RonFrank]

I'd pay $20 to dive there Friday evening, Sat/Sat Evening/Sun.

The study was from 2005, so prices of everything have done nothing but go up mainly based on Gas costs. We shall have to wait and see what the cost is when they get to that point. $20 for a weekend of diving I can live with even if it's a huge increase from the current prices. If that cost doubles, or if they want $20 a day.... well we don't have a LOT of diving option in the winter here....

I'm hoping for the best, but it maybe 2 years or more before this all goes into effect. Heck it's been three years, and in that time they have removed ONE structure, and barely started on the dive shop. Santa Rosa time is like reverse doggy years!

 

[DandyDon]

I'd pay $20 to dive there Friday evening, Sat/Sat Evening/Sun.

Ok, fine. Maybe I'm not much of a fan.

I swam along with the largest fish in the world today, 30 ft long skimming the top, me right 5 ft from him.

The other day went to 140 ft deep in a sink hole on land to shoot pics of a Myan sacrificed to rain god a thousand years ago

I may have a lousy love live due to my impatience with BS but i still live on.

Tonight I'm on Isla Holbox - even Google Earth doesn't know understand where I am.
So remote, love it!

So maybe I'm not in the right mood to discuss hamlets playing marketing...

 

[Jasonmh]

I have my fingers crossed that Santa Rosa will get it right, but there is probably not much chance of that. There are so many potential problems with this that I hardly know where to start. When you look at what the city has done with BH so far it doesn't look good. Here are just a few of my concerns:
- There is no mention of a yearly permit in the plans
- If my non-diving wife comes with me (which she does a few times a year), she is now going to have to pay to get in to stand there with nothing to do
- Staffing and hours seem way out of whack. They have 2 people listed to staff the dive shop. The hours for Saturday (for example) are 9am to midnight (opens at 7am now). Either those are going to be insanely long days for those 2 people, or there will only be one person there at a time (more likely). That means at 9am on many Saturdays you are going to have 80-100+ divers trying to get in through the building (monumentally stupid idea) to buy their permits from the one employee, who will also be manning the dive shop and filling tanks?
- I hate hearing that some of this has already been decided, or there are "dead set" against certain things. I can dig that they want to improve things, and make some money, but you don't do that by making things so difficult that you alienate your customers.
- Many of the improvements and upgrades to the hole have been put off for lack of funding, some I'm sure will happen later, and some probably won't. There was talk of many things to help ease the overcrowding... such as creating the connected "pool" area off to the side, moving the outflow, widening the current steps and/or adding a second set of steps. None of this has been done, and the money was not approved. So now we are talking about this huge marketing campaign to get more people to come to the hole, to do what? Stand in 2 really long lines instead of the one congested one we have now? Basically they are trying to get much more traffic to the hole, but be open less often.
- I'm sure I must be reading this one wrong... They are going to have Blue Hole open 7 days a week DURING THE SUMMER ONLY, and 9-5 fri-mon the entire rest of the year? Jesus.. right now atleast it is open 7-7 (later for night diving). That is a step in the wrong direction, which equals less diving opportunity for more money and more hassle.
- This idea of taking everything through the building sounds like a complete cluster. Do people in SR really have no idea of how much gear the average diver/instructor/dive shop brings with them? I can't think of any other equipment intensive sport that does such a thing. Imagine if skiing were that way. Everyone on the mountain has to take themselves and all their gear in and out through one building.
- It sounds like some of the folks there are concerned that divers are not paying for permits. Pretty much every diver I know would be happy to pay IF THERE WAS A WAY FOR THEM TO PAY. Seems like there is some attitude/animosity coming from the city that divers are trying to rip them off, but it seems to not occur to them that there is no one there to sell the permits. Just having someone there to sell the permits would make this almost a non-issue.
That is just the start of the gripes I have, I really hope that someone from SR will read this.

But, for all my griping, I can understand that they want to put this new center in and they need money and to raise the rates to do it. I don't mind paying more, I really don't. Right now I buy an annual permit every year for $25, and I would even be ok with paying $100 or maybe more for an annual permit. But what I mind is paying more for less (as in shortened hours and min $100 for night dives outside of summer) AND being hugely inconvienced by nonsensical ideas like trying to funnel everyone through the dive shop. I don't really care about most of what they are putting in, I don't need meeting rooms, etc. Of all the stuff they had listed, I would probably use the snackbar every once in a while, and the restrooms, that is it. If it is going to be as described here, I will proabaly not dive there as much, and will save my money for short trips to places that have better diving and are more dive friendly, such as So. Cal., Catalina, FL, Coz, etc.

Anyway, it is late and I have rambled on for too long

 

[GotNoOcean]

Seems ridiculous filtering everybody through the building. I'd think a simple ski-lift line-like checkpoint at the actual access point to the hole would work better and not turn into a ridiculous squeeze through a building with 4 tons of gear. The bottom line is that they have to staff it, and I don't get the impression they want to make that investment -- its a cost that goes on after all the grants have been spent.

For the record, I go to Blue Hole 2-3 times a year to crash-test gear and tune up skills before a dive trip. Never ONCE in the past 14 years have I ever been checked for a permit or asked to buy one, though I've always been prepared to.

 

[RonFrank]

James, you bring up some excellent points. I hope the City of Santa Rosa get's the opportunity to hear your concerns, as they echo many of mine as well.

I have never liked the idea of going through a building to enter, but had not thought of the huge bottleneck issue first thing in the AM. That IS a huge issue, especially given Santa Rosa's history of managing (or basically lack there of) this area.

Single threading 60 divers in the AM could result in some waiting around for some time. THAT would be a big problem especially for Dive shops on a schedule certifying and training.

I also question how well Santa Rosa will manage things given the fact that they do a horrible job of collecting permit dues. Usually where there is a cash incentive, things tend to get done. Not in this case as a lot of folks say they have not paid because they have no one there collecting.

 

[Waterskier1]

Some interesting things I read:

Only 100 parking places for 500 seat conference facility (5 people/car) plus the divers??

Dive shop sales of over $100K to start. Rentals over $50K to start (that's 10K tanks!).
Plus Instruction (mandatory) of $31K.

They state that manager/Instructor will be paid $48K but that comes out of the above income - not in addition to.

I just don't see the Blue Hole becoming a profitable LDS.

I don't I could haul all my gear in through the building all at once....not with 3-4 tanks. They will need some provisions for making several trips, and HUGE lockers to hold all that gear while I'm making those trips.

Some of this sounds good on paper, but I'm not sure they have actually looked at getting divers (especially beginner students) into and out of the building with all their gear and tanks (most LDS bring their own tanks, even if it's only one or two per student and have Stella fill them, or fill them themselves). And I shudder at the thought of mandatory tank rental. Will they have double setups? Tanks with din valves and manifolds?

It would be great to have the opportunity to try out new gear in a "real" dive environment, but I'm not sure I want to flip the bill for that.

There will be other options than Blue hole in the near future.

Bruce

To what are you referring? I've heard lots of rumors, but after I have investigated them, they turned out to be unfounded or abandonded for lack of siginificant water flow, capital expence or some other reason. Can you enlighten us?