In defense of Casual Divers

[Jamdiver]

.....

Here I am, casually searching the web for a better Jamaican Jerk Rub than I have now, and you have the gall to post a possibly inflamitory post like this!!!

......

I think you know who to turn to for that ...

 

[BHB ScubaTroll]

Whatever it take$ to get the tip$.

Ok, you're in... here's $10.00. Thanks for cleaning my gear when that guy blew chunks on it.
:lol:

 

[BHB ScubaTroll]

I think you know who to turn to for that ...

Yeah, but I'm waiting for you to PM me with it.... and it better not include soy sauce

 

[Tom Smedley]

Whether the divemaster is the Reich Marshall or just a Stuffz does not matter. The average person who goes on a dive vacation once a year does not need to be a PhD in Gas Physiology. That is what the good divemaster in a resort is for. For us old folks who dive as we please, that is what the good divemaster's grey hair is for.

There was a poor soul Divemaster in Cayman Brac who swore I would end up bent even though most of my 70 plus minutes were at ten feet or above.

I agree with the poster that there are those amongst us who dive for obsessivness and there are those that just want to get away and look at the pretty fishes.

We look at things differently but I believe there is room in the ocean for both.

 

[trucker girl]

I try avoid "dive nazi" operations and if inadvertently find myself in their grasp, I'll let anyone who'll listen know about it and will never return. I'm not the least bit bothered by a dive operater wanting to check me out for a dive or two, but I expect to be let loose for subsequent dives with reasonable restraints - with a buddy, no decom, 130 foot limit, on the boat with a few hundred psi in my tank. Even then, there are times - a good divemaster who can find interesting and unusual creatures, for example - when it's worthwhile tagging along.

Okay... but just because you said so...

My first diving experience was in 2002 with Reef Trekkers in/on Oahu. They took us down with ZERO preparation. My husband has asthma and our friend has diabetes (with a pump inserted into his torso that he removed ON THE BOAT). None of us had even snorkeled.

We got in the water on our first dive and we were terrified. Our instrucions had been, "here, breathe through this," "I'm the one with the big fins, look for me," and "I don't understand why people who have never snorkeled want to dive."

The results... I fell in love once I overcame my fear (and despite the A-hole DM who should never have taken us down in the first place) and found a LDS who taught me right. My husband will never consider diving again- he won't even talk about snorkeling. The experience (which should have been aborted with an escorted ascent from 30 feet- and instead CONTINUED with a forced down time from added weights on my husbands belt to force him to stay down during a panic attack- remember, asthma?).

Dive Nazis? Youbetcha. And I say that knowing full well it is name calling and anti-PC.

I kind of feel bad naming them- but this is the truth of what happened to the best of my recollection.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

As a cause for accident, diver error is much less likely when there is a divemaster at each end of a guided tour, even if that means the resort divers are just passengers.

I'd say that would depend on the skill level of the divemasters ... I've seen some I wouldn't be comfortable diving with.

It's not for every one, but very little in this (or any other) activity is. Each to his own. But that doesn't make anybody the only one or any way the only right way to do anything.

But if it's "to each is own", then why are we having this discussion?

And why should anyone believe that the casual divers among us need defending in the first place?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[jbichsel]

I’ve been on this board for a couple of years now and it seems to me everybody’s getting a little carried away.

I work for a Resort in Roatan a couple of months out of the year and these folks make up about 75% of our customers. Most of these people only dive once a year while on vacation.

They want to relax and see the pretty fish and the beautiful reef. The don’t want to join a CULT or in-list in the WUAFEN SS. They expect me to be a DIVE MASTER not a REICH MARSHAL.

As I said the people are my CUSTOMERS and they expect to be CATERIED to, as they should. After all they are PAYING us.

We pride our selves in running a very SAFE professional Dive operation.

We dive in 80 deg plus water with visibility of 90 feet or more. We use a 2 dive master team with one as a guide and the other in the rear to keep an eye on every one. Our dive groups are usually 4 to 6 and never more then 10.

Our primary focus is to eliminate PANICK. We talk with our guests the night they check in, before we dive the next morning. I’ve been doing this a while and it’s not hard to pick out the people who are full of ****. We talk with people on the dive boat both on the way out and back in. We go out of our way to give advice with out PREACHING. If you want to be a better diver we will go out of our way to teach you. If you are happy with where you are we will take extra care to be sure you stay safe.

We dive very conservative profiles and observer our divers not only under water but on the boat and in the lodge. Buy the end of the Second day I can assure you we have folks sorted out buy their ABILITIES. The better divers are then allowed a lot longer leash. And the really good ones are invited out for additional dives in the evening to do the neat stuff…………

But back to the point.

Now just how uncomfortable do these folks need to feel cause they don't know the proper procedure for rigging their stage bottles or what their Po2 is after everydive.
I only need these people to be comfortable knowing that they can handle the problems that might occor in the enviorment they are diving in THIS DIVE.

I would grately perfer my divers to have a solid understanding of the BARE BASICS then a little bit about allot of things that have no impact on their safety during the dive they are doing.

I agree that the majority of divers are the "once a year, watch the fishies, recreational" divers. I love these people and want them around for a long time.

That's where I side with Mike Ferrara. We are not asking for OW trining to create Navy SEALS, PhD's in gas absorption, Tech Diving, underwater S&R, etc.

What we are wanting is that HowieDean and others in his situation, can realize what he just posted as his preference: "I would grately perfer my divers to have a solid understanding of the BARE BASICS then a little bit about allot of things that have no impact on their safety during the dive they are doing."

Get the agencies to actually require that OW divers be trained to the level of skill that OW certification claims. Being able to plan and conduct dives without supervision. Hold on, let me finish.

For those once a year divers, doesn't it make sense that their training should be somewhat more rigorous than what the minimum requirements are now, so that the skills are ingrained deeper?

Sure, let them pay for the guided tour. No problem with that at all. But provide a level of training that makes HowieDean's job easier and safer.

The most dangerous thing our quests do is ride in the van from the Resort to the Airport and back.

Dang, and I was getting ready to book a trip there!

These folks aren’t going to dive the DORA, they aren’t going to buy a dry suit, they just want to RELAX and have FUN.

Exactly. Provide them a better level of training so they can be more relaxed and have more fun.

If we want our sport to GROW we need to stop trying to SCARE people away.

It’s called CUSTMER SERVICE you can lead people to be better divers while they are having a good time. Our you can treat them like idiots and beat diving out of them.

I know this is not congruent with the opinions of most of you on this board but it works for me. Any time I can get some time off from work I just jump on plane to Roatan, get reimbursed for the ticket and work for a few weeks.

That's just my opion I could be wrong

I'm not trying to scare people away. Just the opposite. I just believe the agencies are doing a disservice to new divers by telling they will get a certain level of training and then not following through on that commitment.

HowieDean, I commend you on your attitude and your dedication. Though I think we don't quite see eye-to-eye, I think we're not far off. I just want to send you divers you don't have to worry about. Straight out of the box.

 

[TSandM]

I dive to see the fishes. I love warm water, and long, shallow dives rich with life. I'm quite willing, if diving in an area I don't know, to follow a DM and let him point out the cleverly camouflaged life I would have missed if he hadn't spotted it for me.

On the other hand, I take responsibility for my dive. I listen to the briefing and understand the plan. I know whether I will have enough gas for the dive. I dive with my own buddy, and within the limits of his willing cooperation, we remain as a buddy pair as we follow the DM. My buoyancy control is fairly good, and I don't kick the coral, and I can be depended upon to do a controlled ascent with my buddy. I monitor my own gas.

I suspect I'm quite the sort of diver that a resort DM is happy to have in the group, in that I require little supervision and am unlikely to get into trouble.

I got that way by training with the Waffen SS, as the OP would have it.

 

[SparticleBrane]

The Waffen SS? What about the Kriegsmarine, since we are talking about water-based activities...

I've never been resort diving before in the Caribbean, but I'll throw this out there. I probably wouldn't mind a DM showing me around a wreck, but I can find my own way around a reef. I also wouldn't like the DM planning my dive for me. If I'm paying the money, I'm going to plan my own dive, and dive the way I want. To me, when I pay for boat diving, I'm paying for the service of someone taking me out there and whatever else they want to tell me about the dive site--after that, I prefer to dive the way I wish--that's what I'm paying them for.

 

[mudchick]

My less experienced take on the original post is that Howie feels the SB has been perhaps too focused on those people for whom diving is more that a hobby, it is a true calling, and not something that should be with hardcore effort for all ...or you're gonna die. I would suggest that divers who spend a certain amount of time (i.e. alot) on this board are more active in the sport than average once-a-year vacation diver and so the yearly divers don't have the social connection that others (hardcore for lack of a better term) within their own diving experience.
When an individual comes to SB with less experience board members generally want to help and give it very generously. But when it it isn't applied to a specific individual, rather to a population of a diver type, then they're all strokes waiting to happen and take you down to the briney deep. I'm over simplifying things here, but I have certainly noted a strong tendancy to flame or at least grill divers who are not the diver everyone else thinks they should be. It seems to tak on the appearence of "US v. THEM".
Can't we just enjoy what we do, however we do it. Can't we all just get along?