In defense of Casual Divers

[MikeFerrara]

As a cause for accident, diver error is much less likely when there is a divemaster at each end of a guided tour

Even if that's true, it wouldn't be if divers knew how.

 

[IXΘYΣ]

The part with which I disagree is your assumption that everyone was competent at the time they were certified.

I didn't say that and I don't assume that. If I implied that then it was a mistake, and I apologize.

There are incompetent instructors issuing certifications to folks who just aren't ready. There are also agencies that, IMO, have standards that are inadequate to the task of training competent divers. ... no one has a right (agency or instructor) to mislead their customers into thinking they are receiving top notch instruction when they are not.

I couldn't agree with you more.
IXΘYΣ

 

[TheRedHead]

because they know what a wing and backplate are, they don't need help ... cause those are the ones that really can cause harm. Again, if you pose, you're not authentic.

Why would you say that someone wearing a BP/W is the one that can really cause harm? I would assume that someone in a BP/W is at least thinking about the way they dive. I don't like diving with recreational scuba instructors because they can't stop themselves from instructing divers they meet on the boat. They're easy to spot because they wear Scubapro jackets that are faded to a turd brown color from so much time in the pool. They make comments about your reel and liftbag on the way to the wreck. "You don't need all that tech gear." I want to throttle them but I usually manage to ignore them.

 

[Walter]

I didn't say that and I don't assume that. If I implied that then it was a mistake, and I apologize.
IXΘYΣ

I know you didn't and I didn't mean to imply you believed that, only that it could be read that way. From your post, I wasn't sure of your belief on that point. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[ehuber]

I don't believe he was terribly difficult to understand... he obviously gets the sense from these boards --and through his business-- that the arrogant know-it-all types frustrate and scare away more casual, recreational divers who don't have 10K worth of gear and obsess about DIR, backup computers, and quizzing everyone on their memorization of dive tables.

Frankly, I think he's not giving people enough credit for figuring out who the jerks are... there are know-it-alls in every facet of life and they just need to be ignored and left to their obsessing.

If a business is clear on who they are catering to, then the gungho types can do their tek diving through one shop and the fun-seeking rec divers at another... no real problem there. Only real problem I see in this guy's statement is his grammar. LOL...

 

[plankspanker]

The irony is in the people that post 5 paragraphs defending how intense they are about diving and why their "system" rocks are only identifying themselves as part of the group that he is talking about.

I have been in the military and law enforcement ... a basic rule of poker always comes up: if you play heavy, you have a weak hand. Translation: if you spend a lot of energy convincing people you are a "serious" ______ (ex: diver, MF'er, killer), you are not one, you are a poser.

I think he was defending his industry that takes in all divers to explore their underwater world. He watches for those that need a lot of help, gives credit to those that don't, and really watches for those that think that because they know what a wing and backplate are, they don't need help ... cause those are the ones that really can cause harm. Again, if you pose, you're not authentic.

An old zen saying: Those that don't know of "it", speak and those that do know of "it" do not say.

actually posting several paragraphs basically saying how people who post 5 paragraphs to explain something are posers is more ironic.

From your post it seems that you think that most people in a BP/W are posers, why is that? How many times have you personally experienced this?
Also you may want to take a cue from your zen quote because you are not doing a good job of "not saying". The "it" being that due to your military and law enforcement background that you have some great understanding of personality types and can tell from a few paragraphs or a few sentences who people really are.

 

[lamont]

Wow, I just looked at a globe based on your post. I was sure Roatan was no where near a polar ice cap, but I wanted to be sure.... Yep... it's still in the same place it was before.

Ask Walter where the vast number of accidents are reported based on dive skill level. We've had conversations about the subject in the past. BiggDawg appears to be closer to correct based on the information I have heard

I think you, Walter (if that's his opinion) and BIggDawg are completely wrong. I just went through the 2005 DAN report and:

1. the majority of fatalities (50-70%) had only OW or AOW certs.

2. the majority of fatalities (~75%) had less than 20 dives in the prior 12 months.

3. 56% of fatalities were returning to diving after 1 to 4 years.

4. ~60% of fatalities were on dives with a max depth of 60 fsw or less.

5. 88% of fatalities were on 21%, 6% were on 32%, rebreathers and trimix account for the remaining 6%..

 

[ItsBruce]

Interesting numbers. However, that does not mean that once-a-year-warm-water-vacation divers are at a greater risk. It could simply be because the ranges where fatalities occur are the ranges where most diving is done. I don't know the statistics for gas mixtures, but I'd guess that far more than 88% of all dives are on 21%, that less than 6% of all diving is on rebreathers or trimix; that more than 60% of all dives are at less than 60 feet, etc. If we had those numbers, we could see where fatalities are most likely to happen.

Quite obviously, additional training reduces the risk of an injury -- unless one uses that additional training to push the envelope.

I do, like ehuber's point about the OP relating to the fact that "arrogant know-it-all types frustrate and scare away more casual, recreational divers." That is how I read it. I also read it to say that the more hardcore divers should lighten up on the once-a-year-warm-water-vacation divers. Sure we owe it to them to alert them to things that will surely kill them. But, do we need to tell tham that if they don't have a safety sausage, whistle and mirror, they'll die? Or that if they don't have a bp/w, they'll die?

What do the DIR divers really think of the rest of us? (My guess is that they think we'll die. They may even think that we are so low on the evolutionary scale that its ok if we do die

 

[PerroneFord]

What do the DIR divers really think of the rest of us? (My guess is that they think we'll die. They may even think that we are so low on the evolutionary scale that its ok if we do die

Dead divers are bad. Hard on the families, bad press.

Plus DIR divers are only legend anyway. And they don't believe in computers so they can't really post on the internet.

 

[TheRedHead]

What do the DIR divers really think of the rest of us? (My guess is that they think we'll die. They may even think that we are so low on the evolutionary scale that its ok if we do die

Do you really feel that way? I'm not a DIR diver, BTW.