If you were to redo the scuba industry how would you do it?

[scubadada]

I can't speak for other parts of the country, but in my area, the number of dive shops has been in a gradual decline. The largest chain of shops is down from 8 shops to 5 now. A longtime 3 shop chain is down to 2. A number of dive shops have gone come and gone in my short 10 years.

I guess the carrying capacity of the system was exceeded.

I think Florida is an exception as people can dive reasonably most of the year.

Yes, that is true. Between my full 7 mm, 5 mm, 3 mm, and 5/3 hooded vest, I am able to dive comfortably all year.

What is this tip system to which you refer? I have never seen it in practice in my area.

Paying the boat crew $10 or so a tank to augment their measly or no salary for working the boat.

Of course everyone is in it for themselves. But this reminds me of a meeting at Intel when Andy Grove ran the show. There was applause when he informed us that Intel had surpassed IBM in market cap. He admonished those who clapped by saying that "we should never cheer the demise of a competitor. As a healthy IBM is a healthy industry."

Caring about the health of the entire ecosystem is in everyone's interest. The attitude of "screw you, I've got mine, you get your own" is shortsighted.

Yes, caring for the entire ecosystem would be a great goal

 

[Lorenzoid]

So you want to kill Scuba? The way you made this makes it sound like 100s of deaths are taking place every day. Yes 1000% you have instructors who stop caring but what you are talking about would make scuba such a small sport.

Maybe the goal could be not just reducing deaths and injuries but producing more skillful and responsible divers, who have the ability and desire not to crash into the reef, who are more likely to act as good buddies when buddy diving, etc. There are so many threads discussing what makes a good diver and how to teach that. The agencies' standards are fine; they don't need to be made more stringent, just adhered to more objectively. Here we have a thread that suggests separating training from certification as a way to produce better divers. I don't see it happening, but I think the idea has merit in theory and would not "kill scuba."

 

[MidOH]

What would I change:

-I'd let the part time hobby shops die out. The best of the best will survive. These guys should have never opened a LDS to subsidize their dive costs.

-pools at every shop. I can purchase the wrong gear online. Give me a pool to test fins in.

- double the size of every dive boat per person. At any cost. Nothing sucks more than a crowded dive boat.

-Agencies get involved with airlines. Possibly combine resources and offer package deals. Delta/Padi/Resort combo pack. Educate them on dive gear. Push for dividers between seats. Possibly even bring cruise ships into the party. Fix them from within.

-2 tanks is lame. Serve a quick lunch, lets do 4 dives. Snorkel tours do this all the time with boats twice the size of a dive boat. Amd half the cost. So its doable on dive budgeting.

-free diving and training for strippers. What a crude remark. But it does wonders for gym memberships. If all of your divers look like they spend most of their non diving free time at Olde Country Buffet, that could be a problem.

-more rental tank variety. Women dont need an AL80 for a 1 hour dive. Some men might need an Hp100.

-In shop hydo's. Easy money maker. Way easier than dialing in regs. Give divers every fair chance to pass a hydro. Dont fail a tank just because its galvanized and new.

 

[MidOH]

Maybe the goal could be not just reducing deaths and injuries but producing more skillful and responsible divers, who have the ability and desire not to crash into the reef, who are more likely to act as good buddies when buddy diving, etc. There are so many threads discussing what makes a good diver and how to teach that. The agencies' standards are fine; they don't need to be made more stringent, just adhered to more objectively. Here we have a thread that suggests separating training from certification as a way to produce better divers. I don't see it happening, but I think the idea has merit in theory and would not "kill scuba."

This is entirely the divers responsibility. If you need more training, get more training. My LDS isnt going to have any trouble with my inevitable need for some private sessions.

We cant force this on people. Leading by example, and offer better training options.

Dont we already have Gue certification? Isnt that kinda the same thing, in a more tech category?

 

[BoundForElsewhere]

If you were to throw out the current structure of the entire scuba industry and re-do it, how would you do it?

Here’s what I would do as a start:

You go to a dive school of your choice. That could be a current agency like PADI, NAUI, SSI, or others. Either an established school or a private certified instructor. You can supplement your training and knowledge with written materials, books, etc. mentors, but you would need a signed training sheet filled out by a certified instructor/instructing agency to get to the next step.
When your skills are good are you are ready, you go to a separate certification agency that is for certification only and you go for your test. There is a pool portion, a written portion, and an open water portion. You book your appointment.
The testing is on a pass or fail basis and there is no cheating. Either you can do the skills and pass the exam or you don’t. And of course there is a fee for the cert test.
The employees of the cert agency are not affiliated with any if the scuba schools, the cert agency is completely independent.
In this environment, the teaching of scuba and the certification would be separated.
This would create the opposite effect of what we have now of the easiest least path of resistance effect. It would create a culture of quality to be sure that students would be able to pass the exams set by the cert agency. Those schools/instructors with crappy teaching and rounding corners would soon be gone because they wouldn’t be training people adequately enough to pass the tests. Their Yelp reviews would suck and nobody would go there.

There was another thread in which a lot of corruption was mentioned within agencies with the idea that it’s the fox guarding the hen house. Having one agency teach AND certify students with no real outside oversight leads to a lot of poor training and a cattle drive of student certifications. I agree with this, I think this does lead to corruption and poorly trained students and the only oversee’er at this point is the legal system in the form of law suits when someone dies or gets maimed, after the fact.
If the industry was broken up and the final certification was issued by a non affiliated agency it would introduce a check and balance system which I think this industry desperately needs.

Discuss.

How about two different types of certification? One like you described (very nice, by the way) and one more designed for the "dive once a year on vacation" tribe.
I guess there would have to be some kind of definitive cut off between the two but this raises a whole slew of issues. Too many for me to deal with on the A train.

 

[johndiver999]

What would I change:

-I'd let the part time hobby shops die out. The best of the best will survive. These guys should have never opened a LDS to subsidize their dive costs.

-pools at every shop. I can purchase the wrong gear online. Give me a pool to test fins in.

- double the size of every dive boat per person. At any cost. Nothing sucks more than a crowded dive boat.

-Agencies get involved with airlines. Possibly combine resources and offer package deals. Delta/Padi/Resort combo pack. Educate them on dive gear. Push for dividers between seats. Possibly even bring cruise ships into the party. Fix them from within.

-2 tanks is lame. Serve a quick lunch, lets do 4 dives. Snorkel tours do this all the time with boats twice the size of a dive boat. Amd half the cost.

-free diving and training for strippers. What a crude remark. But it does wonders for gym memberships. If all of your divers look like they spend most of their non diving free time at Olde Country Buffet, that could be a problem.

-more rental tank variety. Women dont need an AL80 for a 1 hour dive. Some men might need an Hp100.

-In shop hydo's. Easy money maker. Way easier than dialing in regs. Give divers every fair chance to pass a hydro. Dont fail a tank just because its galvanized and new.

I assume you entire post is sarcastic, right?

 

[Lorenzoid]

This is entirely the divers responsibility. If you need more training, get more training. My LDS isnt going to have any trouble with my inevitable need for some private sessions.

We cant force this on people. Leading by example, and offer better training options.

But, as I said, there is already a standard set by an agency, and the standard is apparently fine; nobody should "need more training." The thinking behind the OP's suggestion is that divers just need to learn the existing material and be observed objectively to see if they really get it as originally intended by the agency. Can they really repeat each skill "fluidly" and "comfortably" or however the criteria are worded? Speaking for myself, I was in no way comfortable with the skills the first time I dived after the class, and I'm not sure if I could have repeated them as I was taught. Fortunately, like most of us here, we learned on our own over time or took additional training and managed to survive and become the diver we were supposed to be when we received our OW cards. It doesn't necessarily have to be that way. I like the creative (albeit unrealistic) solution of separating training and evaluation.

 

[MidOH]

Agreed. But I passed all the skills tests, in the discover scuba thing.

Now looking towards learning about tech training, and valve drills are a hilarious riot. What a silly concept.

Thats what I fear this independent cert process could be.

 

[Jcp2]

You

Agreed. And now for my sarcasm....

But then who does my family sue for my own stupidity? I mean, I shouldn't be held accountable for my own actions. That's ridiculous! </sarcasm>

You can’t control who loves you and so sad and angry that you aren’t around anymore that they need to hold somebody accountable.

 

[Belzelbub]

In California you take drivers ed in high school, or you go to a driving school, and/or you get a learners permit and your parents or somebody else teaches you how to drive. Then when you turn 16 and you feel you’re ready, you go to DMV (state agency) and take the written test and go for a drive with an examiner. If you pass both of these tests to their standards then you get your license.

FL might be a bit of a hybrid between CA and MT (at least as described). There are private driving schools, and most are just for instruction. You still have to take the test with a DMV instructor.

Driver’s Ed classes in school are a bit different. The instructors in those course are approved by the state to administer the driving test. So, upon completion, they have access to enter the results into the DMV database. Then you go to the DMV, pay the fee, show proof of insurance, have picture taken, and that’s it.