If you were to redo the scuba industry how would you do it?

[MidOH]

For us, we experienced hiking conditions involving:
- hypothermia. Whoops, too many scantily clad women in FL, but panhandle can get cold quick

- flash floods. Yay, lets sleep on this pretty dry creek bed, its so scenic.

-falling. Sinkholes. Mountains. Damn rope swings over a river. Slippery wood staircases.

-lightning
-drowning in a river
-bad food

-tornados. Actually slept through a storm that lifted camp trailers into the trees.

-other humans.

All of this experience has made our dive trips safer and more enjoyable.

 

[Dan G]

It’s probably wise to seek some instruction but just how did those first divers do it without instructors?

Exactly. Some people will be fine and others won't. If diving accidents increase, is that trade-off in the name of a system more like the ski/ride industry a good idea? Maybe, but let's not turn a blind eye to what might happen.

 

[scubadada]

Hi @MidOH

Most of my backpacking was in the Sierra Nevada in California and the Cascade Range in Oregon, plenty of challenging situations. Never had a tornado though

I don't have stats for backpacking, but believe the risk of death is higher for scuba diving

Take care

 

[Subcooled]

And from business point, how do you trust a diver which has no cert that books a 80m wreckdive on a ccr? This makes certificateless diving difficult I am afraid. Do you trust such people as a dive center?

Do you need to trust?
[I am ignoring insurance companies and litigative societies here]

If you rent a bicycle to an adult, and that adult gets overrun by a lorry, then are you responsible for that as a bicycle shop?
Sometimes there's too much of a duty of care.
Adults should know what they do.

Children are another issue completely.

I think we need certs

We need instuction. Good instruction.

, but also need the option for autodidacts to just book an evaluation exam on a level. This is also the driving lesson way, you don't need to take lessons, you just can sign in for an exam. But you can take lessons if you want.

That would be great. Sounds like how drivers licenses are issued where I live.
Training and certification are separate processes.

 

[boulderjohn]

im more along the line of it not being my business, someone doing something beyond their ability in scuba isn’t likely to harm anyone else, same with rock climbing unless someone falls one someone else, skiing actually poses greater risk to others.

One of my scuba students is also an avid climber (actually, many of them are). She works as a volunteer with the local rescue group for climbers. She will strongly disagree with you about rock climbing not creating a risk for others. Getting to and rescuing a stranded or fallen climber can be a tremendously dangerous activity. Recovering a body from a challenging cliff can be worse.

I actually love telling people that I just got my gear off craigslist, and I watched a few videos on YT so I think I am good to dive

This identifies a problem at the heart of this thread and the many like it.

Two points to consider at the start:

1. I first saw scuba diving when visiting my cousins in New Jersey in the early 1960s. My older cousin was an avid diver. A few years ago, I asked him about his training. He said he had no certification. He bought all his gear at a local sporting goods store, and the salesman gave him about 5 minutes of instruction that amounted to "don't hold your breath."
2. Most agencies will certify scuba divers at age 10, which in the USA is typically while the student is in 5th grade.

The simple fact is that simple, non-technical scuba diving is not nearly as hard as some people seem to want it to be. The academic issues are understandable to a typical 10-year old. The primary skill is not holding your breath. The current instructional system, even at its worse, produces divers who have an enormously successful safety record. The percent of fatalities is miniscule, and by far the most common reason for them is medical--like sudden cardiac death. Go through the DAN reports and you will see that only a tiny percentage of the tiny percentage of dives ending in fatalities are caused by an error related to training.

So exactly how would things be improved if we were to add a multi-billion dollar system to ensure that instructors are doing a quality job teaching how to clear a mask?

 

[lexvil]

Exactly. Some people will be fine and others won't. If diving accidents increase, is that trade-off in the name of a system more like the ski/ride industry a good idea? Maybe, but let's not turn a blind eye to what might happen.

Agree, the very constrictive actions of the industry my be what holds the injury ratio to acceptable limits. Really the way things operate now may have some bad sides but it really isn’t to restrictive overall.

 

[Lorenzoid]

There's a major difference between scuba diving and other recreational sports. If you do something stupid, have a major equipment failure, or have a serious medical problem, from any of which you are not able to recover, your risk of death is very high compared to a situation in which you can continue to breathe.

Something I have been meaning to bring up in one of my replies is that I believe humans are more fearful of drowning than some other ways of dying. Drowning just somehow seems more awful. I think the more gruesome we perceive the means of death the more society wants to regulate the safety of it. Drowing in a cave--"close the cave!"

 

[Johnoly]

.... but just how did those first divers do it without instructors?

Besides freediving, It started with surface supplied air. In talking with some of the very old (& now gone) Florida divers, they said their fathers and grandfathers borrowed welding oxygen tanks and dove with pole spears to get deeper. They killed alot of friends, but eventually figured it out. I think other parts of the world were more advanced than SoFla.

 

[Lorenzoid]

If you rent a bicycle to an adult, and that adult gets overrun by a lorry, then are you responsible for that as a bicycle shop?
Sometimes there's too much of a duty of care.
Adults should know what they do.

It depends whether the bicycle was faulty and that caused the accident. With scuba, the issue is less about faulty rental equipment and more about the fear of renting to someone who does not know how to use the equipment. Nobody rents a bicycle so they can try their first ride on a bicycle.

 

[L13]

Simple:

I would change the legal environment. Wavers written in plain language would be fully legally binding. That would fix 90% of the problems with the dive industry in the US in one fell swoop. Competent adults should be able to give informed consent to any level of self risk they want, but if they do it should be legally binding on themselves and they alone should be liable to any third parties impacted by adverse outcomes of taking that risk(family etc.).