I want a cool BC

[King Kong Matt]

MikeS once bubbled...
Matt, you have not completed DIRF yet and you feel personally attacked?

No...I don't feel personally attacked. My use of...

You liken me

was meant to charadcterize the potential reaction of any DIR diver who gets the bashing from the anti-DIR crowd.

I personally could care less whether people dive DIR or not. I make decisions about my personal training that I think are best and I seek to dive with people who think similarly.

The opinion of anyone else, whether they are pro or anti DIR, who has never met me and has never dived with me is wholly irrelevant to me...

Which is exactly why I don't understand the mentality of people who get their undies in a twist about the DIR people "bashing" them...if you think you're a safe diver, what do you care what other people think.

 

[Northeastwrecks]

King Kong Matt once bubbled...

Which is exactly why I don't understand the mentality of people who get their undies in a twist about the DIR people "bashing" them...if you think you're a safe diver, what do you care what other people think.

It challenges their preconceived notions of competance. Deep down, they know that most of what GUE says is right, i.e., that DIR is the safest, least failure prone and most streamlined system (gear, skills, philosophy) in diving today.

The only possible defense is that DIR is not necessary for "their type of diving", that it is overkill, that it eliminates personal choice and that it is a cult. None of which is true. You will never see a DIR trained diver making most of the idiotic statements that are attributed to us by the anti-DIR crowd, except as a joke or when taken totally out of context.

 

[MikeS]

Northeastwrecks once bubbled...
Having an answer and sticking to it is not fanatical, particularly when you can defend the position.

Agreed, but I think that interpreting a joke at the expense of a diving philosophy you subscribe to, as a personal attack is.

I didn't feel personally insulted. … Then I considered the source.

That seems like a rational response. But I have to ask, why did you respond with what was clearly a personal attack, and quite a scathing one I might add?

KPauley is a recently certified Newbie. As of November, 2002, he and his girlfriend were really trying to get to 25 dives so that they could become advanced divers (Woooooowwwwww, I'm really, really, impressed). I therefore regard his Taliban post as the ignorant ranting of an uneducated STROKE (Oh, yeah, that felt good and its the first time I've ever used that word on this Board) who probably feels threatened by the fact that his skills wouldn't allow him to dive in a SASY unit if GUE set the standard. He doesn't know what he's talking about. He merely parrots what others say.

Expect us to respond with the best advice we can give and to defend our positions.

The advice is great, I for one am grateful for the exposure I’ve had to DIR on this board. Without it I would not be diving a backplate and wings and the long hose. But why do you feel you have to defend your position?


Mike

 

[yknot]

This thread brings 2 thoughts to mind. First, I can see how something like the HUB would have appeal, at least initially. If this unit is truly dangerous then everyone should be blaming the manufacturer for putting it on the market in the first place. Maybe we should question the quality of the rest of their engineering. Before I bought gear, before I discovered this board, I got a catalog from a large mail order scuba store. I must admit that to me being new to diving, the 2 page spread on the HUB was impressive. I can see how you could be sucked in if no one gave you better advice. Does any one know if there is such a thing as company divers? I don't mean LDS owners making recommendations, I mean test divers. If a company wants credibility for a product like the HUB why don't I see testimonials from a test diver who took it to 300' under the ice while penetrating some wreck in a cave?

As far as BP & W, before some posters go there please consider what you are dealing with. With the exception of select retailers, BP's are hardly mainstream. By all accounts, they are "some assembly required" and may or may not require some knowledge in there use which is different than what we learned in OW training. Think about how intimidating that would be for a new diver with raw skills still under development. I do have an open invitation from a senior member of this board to try BP&W's and I will take him up on the offer as soon as weather is warmer here. If they are any improvement to my current gear configuration I will go that route and get sets for my boys as well. Why don't some of the people here that are such strong believers in wings sponser a national BP & W day this summer? There should be enough of you for several sites around the country. Just one request from me: keep the manufacturers out of it. Do it for the good of the sport if BP&W's really are a superior product for all types of diving. It would help your own credibility.

 

[Fetch]

yknot once bubbled...
This thread brings 2 thoughts to mind. First, I can see how something like the HUB would have appeal, at least initially. If this unit is truly dangerous then everyone should be blaming the manufacturer for putting it on the market in the first place.

We do blame the manufacturer. And the buyers, of course. As far as "truly dangerous" goes, the likely dangerous failure modes of a HUB setup revolve around buddy responses, something difficult to quantify. The quality of the HUB systems is likely quite high, but the design itself is what fault is found with.

Does any one know if there is such a thing as company divers? I don't mean LDS owners making recommendations, I mean test divers. If a company wants credibility for a product like the HUB why don't I see testimonials from a test diver who took it to 300' under the ice while penetrating some wreck in a cave?

I'm sure Mares has some testimonials from recreational divers in some of their literature, but the simple fact is that the HUB is in no way, shape, or form targeted at technical divers. It is targeted at recreational divers, and for that kind of marketing, what kinds of testimonials are really effective? "I did 15 boat dives last season, and didn't drown! I also got to use the cool automatic tank strap."

As far as BP & W, before some posters go there please consider what you are dealing with. With the exception of select retailers, BP's are hardly mainstream. By all accounts, they are "some assembly required" and may or may not require some knowledge in there use which is different than what we learned in OW training. Think about how intimidating that would be for a new diver with raw skills still under development.

Believe it or not, just these very elements are taken into consideration when BP/Wings are thrown out as a suggestion in a recreational context. Honestly, most technical divers already know about BP/wings, and how easy they are to setup and dive with. If they don't choose to dive one, it is because of an informed decision (reference: Rich Murchison). However, complete BP/wing "no assembly required" setups can be bought, and dove, very easily. More LDS are carrying lines, and I would suspect that to get a customer, a LDS would be quite willing to expand its horizons in this matter. That is the benefit of making the suggestion to newer divers.

Why don't some of the people here that are such strong believers in wings sponser a national BP & W day this summer? There should be enough of you for several sites around the country. Just one request from me: keep the manufacturers out of it. Do it for the good of the sport if BP&W's really are a superior product for all types of diving. It would help your own credibility.

Personally, my community activism only goes so far I'm willing to help anyone who asks a question, if I'm remotely qualified to answer. Everytime I dive is BP&W day (and I've interested in one dive shop bum, at least, in a long hose setup). I suspect many others are the same. As for keeping the manufacturers out of it... most of us tend to, but certain manufacturers sell good, preassembled solutions that we believe are of a higher quality, hence they will sometimes be explicitly recommended. That's just the way it is

 

[kpauley]

and the smiley

My post wasn't about diving, GUE, PADI, Backplates or any of the other things discussed in this flame session. I was commenting about behavior of members of this board.

I was pointing out an unspoken rule of this board. There are some things that we don't talk about in public for fear of being attacked. We restrict our conversations to things that will not offend the fundementalist faction among us.

I don't know enough about DIR to say if it's better or not. To be honest I don't enough about diving period.

But I have seen enough of the behavior of DIR members of this board to decide that they are not the kind of people I would want to spend an afternoon diving with.

 

[leadweight]

This thread is a complete waste. All these BP/DIR arguments do is clutter up this forum to the extent that it becomes very difficult for anyone to find some legitamate information.

Next time someone says something bad about DIR, try ignoring them.

 

[WreckWriter]

kpauley once bubbled...
But I have seen enough of the behavior of DIR members of this board to decide that they are not the kind of people I would want to spend an afternoon diving with.

Why don't you give us an example or two? If we're so badly behaved it shouldn't be tough to find a few.

WW

 

[ckharlan66]

leadweight,

Normally I would agree with you but when people are compared to the Taliban I think that a response might be in order.

Of course this is just my opinion.

Chad

 

[metridium]

kpauley wrote...
But I have seen enough of the behavior of DIR members of this board to decide that they are not the kind of people I would want to spend an afternoon diving with.

Yeah, it might change your preconceived notions....

and we can't have that.