I want a cool BC

[Uncle Pug]

JamesK once bubbled...
Maybe if we just start refering to all of the anti-DIR folks as strokes, it would make the whole bashing thing a little more even.

I have been a self appointed bouncer on this board for a long time when it came to folks bashing the non-DIR divers and calling them strokes...

But I am reconsidering.

I think you may have a very good idea there... and I for one have just about reached my limit.

 

[JamesK]

Uncle Pug once bubbled...

I have been a self appointed bouncer on this board for a long time when it came to folks bashing the non-DIR divers and calling them strokes...

But I am reconsidering.

I think you may have a very good idea there... and I for one have just about reached my limit.

I did reach my limit. That is why I had a 2 month "vacation" from the board. I got sick of anytime someone asked a question and you replied with something that was even remotely DIR, you were just another nazi. I figured it might have changed, but see it has not.

 

[MikeS]

kpauley once bubbled...
If the DIR/Taliban found out we are talking about this we'll all be in trouble.

Some people need to learn to take a joke.

If it was a joke, and I think it was, it was in bad taste. Not because it poked fun at DIR, which I think is funny, but because of the reference to Taliban at a time when services members are risking their lives to protect us from such a threat.

As to anti-DIR, I find it ironic how intolerant some are of others’ intolerance!

[QUOTE [/i]
But you anti-DIR folks get cut all kinds of undeserved slack when it comes to personal attacks and slander.[/QUOTE]

I did not interpret it as a personal attack or slander in anyway. It was simply a joke in bad taste that wasn’t very funny anyway. Left to it’s own it would have languished in obscurity to be forgotten.

The fact that some people would interpret it as a personal attack highlights one of the aspects of DIR that many find disturbing, a level of devotion to of a way of diving bordering on fanaticism.

Mike

 

[cyklon_300]

I refuse to stoop to that level of simple-mindedness. It 's the reason I migrated to this board, it was generally civil and seemed to avoid the juvenile personal attacks. I prefer to believe that a DIR philosophy includes intelligent discourse.

I can defend any position I take without resorting to taunting, I'll challenge others to do the same.

So, who's going to reply to the newbie that's asking about the HUB this morning? I think I'll pass on the opportunity...

 

[Uncle Pug]

MikeS once bubbled...
The fact that some people would interpret it as a personal attack highlights one of the aspects of DIR that many find disturbing, a level of devotion to of a way of diving bordering on fanaticism.

Is that some kind of joke?

OK.... MikeS... I'll humor you too. Hope you can handle some "jokes" yourself.

 

[metridium]

MikeS wrote...
The fact that some people would interpret it as a personal attack highlights one of the aspects of DIR that many find disturbing, a level of devotion to of a way of diving bordering on fanaticism.

I'm neither DIR nor anti-DIR. I found the comment insulting, as I would have had it been directed at the anti-DIR folks.

Attack the message, people, not the messenger. Anything less demonstrates the weakness of your position, not theirs.

 

[King Kong Matt]

MikeS once bubbled...

The fact that some people would interpret it as a personal attack highlights one of the aspects of DIR that many find disturbing, a level of devotion to of a way of diving bordering on fanaticism.

I am not a DIR diver...yet (trying to set up a DIR-F in Boston soon).

But...I don't find it *disturbing* at all that someone would interpret as a personal attack a comparison between them and the Taliban.

You liken me to a outlaw who harbors terrorists that have inflicted mass casualties, who persecute beyond belief women and ethnic minorities...

And I'm not supposed to take that personally? Surely, calling a non-DIR diver a stroke (an unsafe diver) should not bother you at all then...

 

[cstreu1026]

Uncle Pug once bubbled...

It wasn't a joke... and nobody "needs to learn to take" it.

The DIR bashing (*taliban* is no joke) started before anyone mentioned BP/wings (which btw are not unique to DIR)...

Well I still do beleive it was a joke and I will not change my opinion about that. I do side with Mike though, that is was not neccesariy in good taste nor all that funny.

Uncle Pug once bubbled...

Why are you so one sided cstreu1026? Typical anti-DIR... willing to let DIR bashing slide yet gets on his soap box as soon as we complain about it.

I don't see what I said as one sided. Maybe I have missed something that has been going on in other BC discussions because I got tired of reading post after post about how superior bp and wings are...and the sometimes implied superiority of their users. I think people let this get way too out of hand way too fast and as others have stated, have mistaked a bad joke for a personal attack. Personally, my opnion is that what ever gets you out diving is the best method, be it DIR or not.

Uncle Pug once bubbled...

BTW: If folks want to recommend a bp/wing as a BC they have just as much right to do so as you do to recommend a Seaquest Balance... get used to others having an opinion and expressing it.

I don't have a problem with anyone recommending a bp/wing setup. I love the fact that people on here do mention other options that may not have been explored. I learned a great deal recently about equipment options that way when I was purchasing my first set of gear. However, many people are too quick to dismiss every other option as unsafe or just plain junk with out offering any fact to support their claims.

The real truth of the matter is that there are many many many divers in the world who safely and successfully use set ups that are not DIR and have fun doing so. And a lot of times on this board DIR people are so opinionated and sometimes narrow minded that they feel their way is the only way. No baody is asking them to go back to non-DIR methods so why do some feel they have to convert the world.

 

[MikeS]

Who was personally attacked? I didn’t see any names mentioned or any references to any individuals. Does not a personal attack imply that an individual or individuals are singled out? Or, is a joke at the expense of DIR a personnel attack on everyone that is DIR? And if so, should I now feel personally attacked by the joke about PADI Pool Diver since I was certified by PADI?

Matt, you have not completed DIRF yet and you feel personally attacked? Appling the same standard, everyone that is considering being dive certification by PADI has also been personally attacked by the PADI joke.

Do I consider someone saying that all non-DIR divers are strokes a personal attack? No, I take it with a grain of salt and move on. Would I take it as a personnel attack if someone said that everyone that dives with a backplate and wings Edited – Insert insult here as a personal attack? No, because it wasn’t personal.

Was the joke in bad taste? In my opinion it was.

Was it a personal attack on anyone? In my opinion it was not; it was a joke at the expense of DIR which is a diving philosophy not a person.

The definition of fanatic in Merriam-Webster’s on-line dictionary is “marked by excessive enthusiasm and often intense uncritical devotion.” I don’t think that it is to far of a stretch to say that someone who takes personal insult from a joke at the expense of a philosophy they subscribe to, as being fanatical. And I think that the excessive enthusiasm and often intense uncritical devotion to DIR that some people exhibit on Scuba Board sometimes runs contrary to the open and free exchange of ideas, and in my opinion that is not a good thing.

Mike

P. S. This was not intended as an attack on any person, agency, or diving philosophy.


Edit -- I sincerely apologize to anyone that took offense from, or found the original content inappropriate. Upon review I acknowledge that it was inappropriate for this forum so I have removed it.

 

[Northeastwrecks]

MikeS once bubbled...
The fact that some people would interpret it as a personal attack highlights one of the aspects of DIR that many find disturbing, a level of devotion to of a way of diving bordering on fanaticism.

Mike

Actually, not so much.

I'm GUE trained. You're right about one thing. I didn't feel personally insulted. Moreover, interpreting the remark as a personal attack has nothing to do with being DIR trained, except that the remark was directed to DIR divers.

Actually, I felt sheer, unadulterated amazement bordering on surreal disbelief. Then I considered the source.

KPauley is a recently certified Newbie. As of November, 2002, he was really trying to get to 25 dives so that he could become an advanced diver (Woooooowwwwww, I'm really, really, impressed). I therefore regard his Taliban post as the ignorant ranting of an uneducated STROKE (Oh, yeah, that felt good and its the first time I've ever used that word on this Board) who probably feels threatened by the fact that his skills wouldn't allow him to dive in a SASY unit if GUE set the standard. He doesn't know what he's talking about. He merely parrots what others say.

That goes for most of the Anti-GUE, Anti-DIR posts on this Board. Personally, I just disregard the criticism until and unless the poster shows that he or she took any of GUE's courses or is otherwise qualified to comment (that goes for you, too).

I suspect most of GUE trained divers on this Board could not care less what rig people use until and unless we are called upon to dive together. At the moment divers pair up, their rigs, skills and philosophy becomes the other's personal problem.

However, we respond to questions like any other member of this Board. Expect us to respond with the best advice we can give and to defend our positions. Why? Because the gear we use, the skills we aspire to and the philosophy we have adopted has been tested and proven to work in extremely demanding conditions. Unlike most of the more mainstream gear, which is the product of a very slick marketing campaign carried out in Rodales StrokeDiver magazine and other publications. I won't even comment on the utter lack of skills, except to not that none of the rescue's I've performed or assisted with or witnessed would have occured if the divers have been following GUE procedure.

Having an answer and sticking to it is not fanatical, particularly when you can defend the position. We can. How about you?