I have 2 new 100 cu Faber Steel cylinders, inspected and filled 3 months ago. How long can I wait before using the cylinders

[Subcooled]

Both cylinders passed inspection in February

If there is saltwater inside the cylinders, then they will rust, and oxygen will get consumed.
You should note though that 21% O2 is normal and 16% O2 is still OK and that rusting is a slow process.

He mentioned a concern about air quality

In three months time?
It's always great to be cautious, though!

my question is how can a cylinder sit without use and still have good air quality?

I've had them sit for 6 or 8 months without any problems.
Our first aid oxygen bottle has been sitting for years.
I do not consider you being at risk of hypoxia.
Just keep the tanks dry from the inside.

 

[broncobowsher]

Hydro cleaning = Hydrocarbon cleaning = removing any hydrocarbon residue = also known as O2 cleaning.

-Z

Someone is inventing new terms that are not part of the industry standard. Good job in inventing new terms that just confuse people.

What you are describing is know at "oxygen cleaning". It has been called that for decades. Don't go around making up new terms that only make sense to you. They confuse the rest of the divers that actually know what oxygen cleaning is and have never heard of "hydro cleaning".

As others mentioned, 3 months is nothing. I have fills that are years old. Will have to do a VIS or more than likely a hydro before the next fill. But they are safe (and technically still legal even by DOT standards). The rules regard refilling cylinders, but nothing to do with using them.

 

[Doc Harry]

Hydro cleaning = Hydrocarbon cleaning = removing any hydrocarbon residue = also known as O2 cleaning.

-Z

Never heard that one before, never read it in any literature either. Is that a European term?
The terminology has always been "oxygen clean" in the USA literature

 

[Subcooled]

a hydro

a hydrostatic pressure test (just to clarify this to all - esp. after the uncommon hydro cleaning term)
to verify the elasticity of the cylinder material i.e. to detect fatigue.

(I know you know the term. Just felt it needs to be written out here....)

 

[sourdough]

I had a shop try to convince me that my few months old Faber steel cylinders from DGX needed to be cleaned to be filled with EAN32.

I'm not a gas blender but I'm not entirely naive, so I asked why the dive shop I generally frequent can do it with their banked gas; only then did he offer additional explanation that his shop does partial blending, pure O2 would be entering the cylinders, and that the industry + dot regulations are moving in this direction anyway so I should get them cleaned for this reason. I've not been to many fill stations, only about 1/2 dozen across Florida, and that was the first partial blender I've encountered, the others generally all have banked nitrox, or a nuvair with membrane, so I figured he might just be a sleazy salesman, because it felt like I was talking to the classic stereotype of a used car dealer. He callously said the cylinders weren't nitrox ready because they didn't have stickers, they did, somehow he didn't see them. Then he opened the valves without mentioning it, and said the tanks were empty because no gas came out, they weren't, they had metal plugs. Then he tried to yank those off before I could explain that they have a pressure release button. Then he said I shouldn't use the plugs because they're not the same metal as the valves and would corrode, which is entirely incorrect according to DGX.

He neglected to say anything about the valves or o-rings needing O2 service, just seemed intent on me having them do a cleaning service for a pair of almost new (sub 20 dive) cylinders.

I didn't get them cleaned and never go to that shop anymore because of that one guy. He was so confidently wrong & arrogant in nearly everything he pitched. Nice reminder that the sharks aren't just underwater. Even if people mean well, they may be giving you bad advice with bad information, and because they speak confidently and have more experience than new divers, they can come across like authority figures.

 

[Doc Harry]

I had a shop try to convince me that my few months old Faber steel cylinders from DGX needed to be cleaned to be filled with EAN32.

That's their prerogative.

They're standing next to cylinders, and pumping them up to 3,000 p.s.i.
They're assuming all the risk.
It's their prerogative to decide what they require to fill your tanks.

When it's you standing next to a pressurized cylinder that some guy off the street gave to you, I'll bet you'd have some safety concerns yourself.

Personally, I'm fed up with arrogant-ignorant people who tell me to pressurize their cylinders according to their standards, when they're not the one standing at the fill station and assuming the risk.

 

[sourdough]

That's their prerogative.

They're standing next to cylinders, and pumping them up to 3,000 p.s.i.
They're assuming all the risk.
It's their prerogative to decide what they require to fill your tanks.

When it's you standing next to a pressurized cylinder that some guy off the street gave to you, I'll bet you'd have some safety concerns yourself.

Personally, I'm fed up with arrogant-ignorant people who tell me to pressurize their cylinders according to their standards, when they're not the one standing at the fill station and assuming the risk.

I'd consider that a more honest conversation if this was what was said, I can respect standards of the servicer, and understand requirements around dealing with O2. No issues with any of that. A simple "we partial blend without a stick, so require O2 servicing on cylinders/valves" and all is well. This wasn't that, it was a poor attempt to sell an unnecessary "cleaning" service on shiny new tanks that wouldn't even result in making the cylinders O2 ready.

I didn't tell the business how to do anything, I simply listened, asked questions to further understand, thanked him for his time & info and declined because I never plan to use higher than 40% in them so O2 servicing just in the off chance that I encounter shops doing partial blends in the cylinders isn't worth it.

Is partial blending really a growing trend for nitrox fills like the guy said? Because I haven't seen that, everything I've been reading is that sticks, membranes, and banked premixes is the norm for nitrox. I assume partial blending is more catered to technical fills, where more variety is needed for deco bottles.

As a professional you definitely shouldn't be servicing anything that isn't safe, or that you aren't comfortable with, it'd be irresponsible to do otherwise. I'd like to think you're exaggerating about customers telling you what to do, but then again people are known to be irrational, as well as dishonest or greedy.

But in general we have pretty established procedures & schedules for testing, and cylinders are labeled with this, so when a customer comes in "off the street" it's not like they're handing you a blank piece of mystery steel or aluminum, especially if the manufacturer imprint is months old. And if a shop just didn't trust anything they haven't cleaned or inspected themselves as a safety precaution, I agree that's their prerogative.

 

[Subcooled]

I had a shop try to convince me that my few months old Faber steel cylinders from DGX needed to be cleaned to be filled with EAN32.

I'm not a gas blender but I'm not entirely naive, so I asked why the dive shop I generally frequent can do it with their banked gas; only then did he offer additional explanation that his shop does partial blending, pure O2 would be entering the cylinders, and that the industry + dot regulations are moving in this direction anyway so I should get them cleaned for this reason.

In what kind of cleanroom would your cylinders be oxygen cleaned then, in order to make them even more clean?
It is another matter altogether, if you have filled your cylinders with a filthy compressor that spits oil into your cylinders.

I've not been to many fill stations, only about 1/2 dozen across Florida,

How much hydrocarbons in the air?
Fill stations should have their air quality verified (at least where I live).

and that was the first partial blender I've encountered, the others generally all have banked nitrox, or a nuvair with membrane, so I figured he might just be a sleazy salesman,

maybe, or old school.

because it felt like I was talking to the classic stereotype of a used car dealer. He callously said the cylinders weren't nitrox ready because they didn't have stickers,

OH YES! THE STICKERS!
The highest authority of all.
Authenticability ~100%

they did, somehow he didn't see them.

That blender is suspect.

Then he opened the valves without mentioning it, and said the tanks were empty because no gas came out, they weren't, they had metal plugs. Then he tried to yank those off before I could explain that they have a pressure release button. Then he said I shouldn't use the plugs because they're not the same metal as the valves and would corrode, which is entirely incorrect according to DGX.

RUN!

He neglected to say anything about the valves or o-rings needing O2 service, just seemed intent on me having them do a cleaning service for a pair of almost new (sub 20 dive) cylinders.

It is THE VALVE where the oxygen fire most likely starts because it's a narrow space with high velocities and particles hitting walls could ignite the valve.

 

[sourdough]

It is another matter altogether, if you have filled your cylinders with a filthy compressor that spits oil into

I'll pay for extra virgin olive oil flavor with a hint of balsamic vinegar. I've heard that you can actually taste the oil sometimes, an instructor said I could smell the can next to their nuvair if I wanted to familiarize. I always wonder what I'd smell from the reg check if something wasn't right.

How much hydrocarbons in the air?
Fill stations should have their air quality verified (at least where I live).

Ooo, hydrocarbons is a new concept to me... is that something to ask shops, or do they have it on the wall? I've noticed dated paperwork on my regular LDS but never looked closely.

OH YES! THE STICKERS!
The highest authority of all.
Authenticability ~100%

lol, are stickers unreliable, do people fake them or anything silly? I'm still new, I would think people would want to take the health of their cylinders seriously.

Have you ever looked into doing your own internal cylinder inspections?

 

[Subcooled]

I'll pay for extra virgin olive oil flavor with a hint of balsamic vinegar. I've heard that you can actually taste the oil sometimes, an instructor said I could smell the can next to their nuvair if I wanted to familiarize.

Where can I bring my cylinders?

I always wonder what I'd smell from the reg check if something wasn't right.

Ooo, hydrocarbons is a new concept to me... is that something to ask shops, or do they have it on the wall?

No, it's a fancy name for that old dirty portable compressor that runs on gasoline and is neither loved nor maintained by anyone.

I've noticed dated paperwork on my regular LDS but never looked closely.

It's great to skimp on audits. They cost a lot - and most people don't really care.

lol, are stickers unreliable, do people fake them or anything silly?

They are not issued by an authority.
These, I mean: Visual Inspection Certificate Inspection Sticker

Those are just stickers that are agreed upon by commercial companies.
Your company could issue its own stickers.

Have you ever looked into doing your own internal cylinder inspections?

Yes. Yesterday I did, and now I am cleaning them. Not for O2, but cleaning still.
I had some dirty water enter them and now it's washing time.
Usually, visual inspection is for rust, though.