How happy are you with today's level of Diver Education?

[The Chairman]

May I remind our contributors that we ARE in Basic Scuba. Nice it up just a bit! Thanks!

 

[The Chairman]

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A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

This thread has been cleaned up and is open again.

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[Jim Lapenta]

I agree Thal, but apparently that's not necessarily being the deliverable in the real world. Interestingly enough, most Instructors I know (even some PADI Instructors who can't test on anything outside of the standards) do not teach to the minimums.

I know you or I don't either Thal, but there seems to be some disparity between what the organizations feel is required to produce a safe diver and what many Instructors feel is necessary! Why is this?

I guess it depends on the agency. SEI requires buoyancy control practice on the first scuba pool session. And while our standards are pretty high compared to others, one standard we also have is that the instructor do whatever, and add whatever it takes to produce a safe, competent, and skilled diver from day one. When I looked for an agency to become an instructor for that was one of the key requirements for me. As a DM intern and DM I saw too many people who should not have been out of the pool doing OW checkouts.

On more than one occasion I had a private conversation with the instructor and voiced my concerns. They fell on deaf ears because "the student met the standards". Til one day I had enough and divorced myself from that operation and nearly quit the pro route altogether. I got with another agency for tech training, read more on here and TDS, picked up a NOAA manual, and took a good look at what else was out there and discovered that there were instructors and agencies that put student needs, interests, and diver competence and safety ahead of profits and selling useless courses and courses that covered what should have been covered in OW.

I also found instructors for the agency I left that also felt the way I do and began associating with them and diving with them. They also went "beyond the standards", did not push con-ed, but created divers who were capable of diving without a pro. And ya know what? I honestly saw more students come back to them for further training. More than the one who pushed a con-ed class every session.

I talk about con-ed when we are at the lake, have completed our checkouts, and tell them that now they need to get out and dive. Once they have their basic skills down and want to do different types of dives or more advanced dives then they need to come back for an AOW class. For me talking con-ed during regular class sessions wastes time. I do not want them distracted by thinking down the road to that dive on the Duane or Spiegel when they haven't done their OW checkouts yet.

I have an AOW class this weekend. We did classroom today from 9am til 4:30pm. Actually got to cut it a bit since we did not need to spend an hour going over the tables. This student dives computer but still uses tables to stay up on them. We will do 3 dives tomorrow and 3 Sunday. And he will learn new skills, polish up others, and earn his AOW card. I do not accept AOW students fresh out of OW. Unless they were exceptional most Ow students, including mine, need some time to practice and polish their basic skills- buoyancy and trim- before they are qualified to take my AOW course. I require a min of 10 dives post OW cert and may require a pool session and/or a couple ow dives with me before I'll sign them up.

A later post in this thread considers a dive a success if the divers made it back to shore or boat. Regardless of how they did it. BULL CACA! Just surviving a dive even if they white knuckled it, were led by the hand, or did but tore up the bottom is not a successful dive. It;s the mark of someone who got just enough from an instructor to not kill themselves- this time. Next time may be different. Calling that a success or sufficient for an OW diver is the mark of an uncaring, lazy, and superficial individual who happened to get through an instructor course.

 

[The Chairman]

Yes.... we do *everything* wrong, us instructors.

Ain't it the truth... but in this case you can blame the agency!

There seems to be a severe disconnect here... we have all seen crappy divers, but we disagree on what needs to be fixed:

• Students
• Instructors
• Agencies
• RSTC

Sounds like the beginning of a poll!

 

[Diver0001]

Actually, just turning that around....

We've all seen outstanding divers....

You have to wonder how THAT happens too, given what the cynics say.

R..

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Raise the RSTC standards - agency must raise theirs - instructors teach to a higher level - result= better student training = better divers. The only losers are those who cannot teach to the higher standards and the agency that loses a few bucks by putting less people thru quickie classes. And that right there is why the RSTC will never raise standards. The money people have too much control over what the RSTC does. Why does that sound so much like DEMA?

 

[The Chairman]

Actually, just turning that around....

We've all seen outstanding divers....

You have to wonder how THAT happens too, given what the cynics say.

R..

Do you think it's only a matter of perspective then?

One instructor sees the ocean as half full of great divers while the another instructor sees the ocean as half empty of crappy divers? I'm just askin'.

 

[InTheDrink]

Wouldn't it all be made simpler if instructor/trainer was clearly separated from examiner??? is that not the single largest deficiency?????

 

[The Chairman]

Raise the RSTC standards - agency must raise theirs - instructors teach to a higher level - result= better student training = better divers.

Perhaps the crappy instructors should just teach to the existing standards? If they are not meeting them now, how will increasing them increase compliance?

 

[The Chairman]

Here is the WRTC's skill set:

4.9 Open Water Scuba Skills. These open water scuba skills are to be performed while
diving in the open water, wearing a minimum instructional scuba diving system.

1. Diving system assembly and disassembly (at water's edge)
2. Equipment inspection (at water's edge)
3. Entries and exits
4. Proper Weighting
5. Mouthpiece clearing – snorkel and regulator
6. Regulator/snorkel exchanges at the surface
7. Controlled descents and ascents
8. Underwater swimming
9. Mask-clearing
10. Buddy-system techniques
11. Underwater and surface buoyancy control
12. Diver assistance techniques (self/buddy)
13. Surface-snorkel swimming with full diving system
14. Removal and replacement of weight/ballast system
15. Removal and replacement of scuba system
16. Out-of-air emergency alternatives
17. Equipment care and maintenance (at water's edge)
18. Underwater navigation

You can find the whole document here: OpenWaterDiver.zip