How happy are you with today's level of Diver Education?

[Teamcasa]

There are horrible classes (most of them, in my opinion) and there are excellent classes. The only problem is letting consumers know the difference.

How is that different in comparison to any other retail/training/service industry?

You can't make anyone a better diver unless they WANT to be a better diver!

Agreed, A competent and caring instructor can make you/me/anyone a better diver, if they make the effort.

However, they need to know that they need more help first. All to often, many OW divers just muddle along on vacation, overweighted, following some twenty-something DM looking at the pretty fisheys for 30 minutes with nary a clue about trim, buoyancy, kicking techniques or navigation.

 

[ozziworld]

I think the tour operators in warm water locations that get the most tourist diver traffic do a lot of 'sizing up' as they are simply exposed to the occasional diver more that cold water divers. Ask any DM in tourist areas and they will tell you the cold water divers simply are more hardcore.

So the tourist diver industry seems to be alright because the operators are aware that majority of the divers they get are ocasional and watch out for them by baby sitting then through their dives. Which turns out to be fine with the tourist diver.

The complaints I observed here are from regular divers running into occasional divers in their turf and going 'whoa! who trained you? and you are unsafe for my kind of diving'.

 

[Papa_Bear]

antidotal: of or pertaining to a remedy or other agent used to neutralize or counteract the effects of a poison

anecdotal: based on personal observation, case study reports, or random investigations rather than systematic scientific evaluation

Hey thanks, but you have me confused with someone who gives a crap!

If any couldn't get it? It's "B"!

 

[Papa_Bear]

How is that different in comparison to any other retail/training/service industry?


Agreed, A competent and caring instructor can make you/me/anyone a better diver, if they make the effort.

However, they need to know that they need more help first. All to often, many OW divers just muddle along on vacation, overweighted, following some twenty-something DM looking at the pretty fisheys for 30 minutes with nary a clue about trim, buoyancy, kicking techniques or navigation.

What if that is all they want? Not everyone wants to make the Black Diamond Run! Some are happy to just be on the Bunny Hill!

The Point is we are putting out open water divers on the same level as 20 years ago! Before that you really had to want to be a diver, but we wouldn't have places like Bonaire or Dive Charters as we would be a very small group!

Divers are NOT dying in record numbers! Isn't that the point, so the industry has to be happy with more divers who are not killing themselves!

 

[*dave*]

Divers are NOT dying in record numbers! Isn't that the point, so the industry has to be happy with more divers who are not killing themselves!

That's certainly isn't the point in my view. Surviving the dive is hardly a measure of success. It's about training competent divers that have the ability to dive on their own in a safe manner, without disturbing the environment.

 

[Papa_Bear]

I think the tour operators in warm water locations that get the most tourist diver traffic do a lot of 'sizing up' as they are simply exposed to the occasional diver more that cold water divers. Ask any DM in tourist areas and they will tell you the cold water divers simply are more hardcore.

So the tourist diver industry seems to be alright because the operators are aware that majority of the divers they get are ocasional and watch out for them by baby sitting then through their dives. Which turns out to be fine with the tourist diver.

The complaints I observed here are from regular divers running into occasional divers in their turf and going 'whoa! who trained you? and you are unsafe for my kind of diving'.

I agree, but some here want total control and SCUBA Police! It reminds me of my Surf Days when the gang mentality would have you running non-locals out of your area! The only diver I care about is ME, I could care less how you dive, its none of my business! I used to recover bad divers or unfortunate ones from the bottom and my feeling was "Too bad, but they died doing what they wanted!"

BTW be careful or someone will correct "Occasional" Oh that's right its not me!

 

[Diver0001]

When I heard of the mythical two day course, I believed it existed.

I still don't believe any major agency will certify you in two days.

I don't think it's possible, even in theory.

The standards stipulate 3 training dives per day, max.

5 CW modules and 4 OW dives is 9. So it only takes grade one math to know that *if* someone is doing it in two days (I do believe Jeff when he says he knows someone who has done this) then I believe it would be a standards violation.

R..

 

[*dave*]

The only diver I care about is ME, I could care less how you dive, its none of my business!

We got that many threads ago and while that attitude is fine for you, I don't think it has any place at the professional level. With that POV, it's no wonder you would think instructional quality is just fine.

 

[*dave*]

I don't think it's possible, even in theory.

The standards stipulate 3 training dives per day, max.

5 CW modules and 4 OW dives is 9. So it only takes grade one math to know that *if* someone is doing it in two days (I do believe Jeff when he says he knows someone who has done this) then I believe it would be a standards violation.
R..

Yep, that's what I'm saying.

Jeff is saying he knows someone who did a two day class. I believe he is saying the academics/confined took two days. He never said how long was spent on checkouts, but it was beyond the two days spent on academics/confined.

 

[Papa_Bear]

That's certainly isn't the point in my view. Surviving the dive is hardly a measure of success. It's about training competent divers that have the ability to dive on their own in a safe manner, without disturbing the environment.

For Open water it is! Where you go from there is up to the individual! Have you ever watched a new class at Catalina on the bottom? Not for long! Are we now talking warm water coral reef divers or cold water kelp divers? See we have more diver doing more diverse dives than anytime in history of the activity! If you want Buoyancy control then take a class or ask an experienced diver! Or pay another dollar into the system for another card! In warm water that's why the do the DM thing! If your skills endanger the "Environment" you have to be comfortable enough to know it! That comes with more diving! Don't make fun of the new skiers, surfers, or SCUBA Divers. you were new once two and you could have been ridiculed and made fun of once as well!

It is not the Job of an OW course to contend with all the possible conditions found around the world including Rock Quarries! Only the teach you the physics of not dying and how to control yourself to the extent of getting in and out without death!

Again a C-Card only releases the Air Supplier of responsibility for supplying you with air! No matter what people say here! You walk into any store and provide them with an OW C-Card they don't test you! The fill your tank and if you kill yourself its your deal!