How happy are you with today's level of Diver Education?

[Diver0001]

I know you or I don't either Thal, but there seems to be some disparity between what the organizations feel is required to produce a safe diver and what many Instructors feel is necessary! Why is this?

Well I guess it's

a) partly because instructors are divers and curriculum builders are academics. One discipline takes place in an alien environment in which human beings cannot survive without life support and you're down there with people who have children, wives, husbands, mothers and fathers and who sometimes need your help to stay alive and the other discipline takes place in board rooms and behind a desk with "teaching aids" like white board markers and coffee cups made of environmentally friendly styrofoam.

b) partly because few, if any, curriculum builders have ever seen a dead body with frothing pink foam coming out of it's mouth.

R..

 

[Papa_Bear]

We got that many threads ago and while that attitude is fine for you, I don't think it has any place at the professional level. With that POV, it's no wonder you would think instructional quality is just fine.

All you folks who think you can do better, start your own organization and teach it anyway you want! You are judging all instructors with your limited knowledge??? WOW! Another humble diver!

Would you be the kinda neighbor who looks over the fence to tell how to grow my garden too?

 

[*dave*]

It is not the Job of an OW course to contend with all the possible conditions found around the world including Rock Quarries! Only the teach you the physics of not dying and how to control yourself to the extent of getting in and out without death!

I'm sure a lot of instructors would agree with you. I don't.

Why shouldn't we expect OW divers to learn BC in their course? It's pretty damn simple and is key to a diver's comfort.

Here's a OW student on his third SCUBA pool session:

Still pretty rough, but by the time they hit OW, they have a bit more practice and a bit more feedback to help them dial in. It isn't that tough.

 

[Papa_Bear]

That's certainly isn't the point in my view. Surviving the dive is hardly a measure of success. It's about training competent divers that have the ability to dive on their own in a safe manner, without disturbing the environment.

It is for the beginner! Successful for new divers is go under see fish surface get out! Hey I did it and next time I will stop and breath! Next time I want to????? That is the progression for most new divers! After a few dives they start getting it! Then if they are hooked it becomes easier to move forward with training, either formal or informal!

 

[Diver0001]

Yep, that's what I'm saying.

Jeff is saying he knows someone who did a two day class. I believe he is saying the academics/confined took two days. He never said how long was spent on checkouts, but it was beyond the two days spent on academics/confined.

Ah.... ok.

Yeah I could see that. It would take a talented student with a high tolerance for the tempo and a highly "efficient" instructor.

I personally don't think I could do this, or would even *want* to try it. But I wouldn't be surprised at all to know that some instructors are doing it.

R..

 

[*dave*]

All you folks who think you can do better, start your own organization and teach it anyway you want! You are judging all instructors with your limited knowledge??? WOW! Another humble diver!

I already teach the course I want. I judge instructors by their students, most of which are train wrecks, but they aren't dead.

Would you be the kinda neighbor who looks over the fence to tell how to grow my garden too?

What are you growing?

 

[The Chairman]

Surviving the dive is hardly a measure of success.

You have to admit though, that NOT surviving the dive is an epic FAIL.

It's about training competent divers that have the ability to dive on their own in a safe manner, without disturbing the environment.

This was part of our discussion in another thread: how do we define "competent"? I quantify each skill to that end, but I am not sure that your definition for them is the same.

I remember detailing how I teach my OW students to retrieve an unconscious diver from depth a few years ago. I had the all pull the weight belt which sent a number of the CWB (Cold Water Barbarians) into a cyber conniption fit! They were right. That would not be appropriate up north, but it's way appropriate where many are wearing only 3 mils or skins. Should I teach my students how to do this in cold water? No. If they go to cold water, I expect them to go on a dive or two with the locals and work things out.

 

[The Chairman]

It isn't that tough.

Again, we agree! It isn't that tough and all it takes is for the instructor to give a damn. Maybe two damns.

 

[*dave*]

My idea of success is different than yours. Success for me comes when, after completing checkouts to my satisfaction, I see 'the look' while planning their next dive trip. "Wow, I survived" is not success. I have a lot of confidence in my students abilities.

50--70 dives to master buoyancy control? That's the number I've heard more than once. It's crap. It's professional neglect and incompetence not to teach something as critical for safety and enjoyment as BC.

It is for the beginner! Successful for new divers is go under see fish surface get out! Hey I did it and next time I will stop and breath! Next time I want to????? That is the progression for most new divers! After a few dives they start getting it! Then if they are hooked it becomes easier to move forward with training, either formal or informal!

 

[Diver0001]

You have to admit though, that NOT surviving the dive is an epic FAIL.
.

ROFL. Yes indeed.

Thanks Pete. I needed a good laugh today.

Incidentally, speaking of lousy instructors, I just got back from doing the AOW night dive. I have someone doing a 1:1 course right now and I took him to a fresh water lake for his night dive.

He was skeptical because he didn't think there was anything to see in lakes. I won't bore you with the details, but when we got out of the water he was CHEERING and saying "DUDE THAT WAS THE MOST INCREDIBLE DIVE I'VE EVER MADE!!!!!"

Yes.... we do *everything* wrong, us instructors.

R..