How happy are you with today's level of Diver Education?
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It's amazing how much we have come to agree on these past few days. Somehow, I think we are on the same side!
Yeah, for a time I didn't think you'ld ever come around to seeing it my way.
Seriously, I'm all for cutting the crap out of courses. The old fart stories have their place, but they should always be to illustrate a point or points. The same goes for talking about yourself. Telling a student what you have does nothing for the student, teaching them what they should consider for themselves before committing to gear does help them. Time on the surface is wasted time. Grandiosity serves no purpose.
WITHOUT all the crap, I still exceed 24 hours of class/pool and would love to have another 10, at least.
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We ran 24 hours of lecture and 24 hours of recitation, with nary a sea-story or instructor doing any talking about them self. Pool sessions are all in the water; and once on scuba are, as much as practicable, entirely underwater.
That sounds like my kind of course. One of these days I am going to fly out to the island, put on my slippers, and pay you to teach me something bra. I probably could've saved thousands and eliminated an entire landfill of C cards if I had done that from the beginning
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- Messages
- 22,171
- Reaction score
- 2,791
- # of dives
- 5000 - ∞
Can do, bring yah slippahs.
That's the goal ... we could even do it vintage, I think that'd be a real kick.
That's the goal ... we could even do it vintage, I think that'd be a real kick.
The instructors can't really do it by themselves. Shops would have to cooperate, which I don't see happening because on the whole shops are not as interested in quality as instructors are.
It's a big tug-o-war between money, time and quality. The framework provided by the agencies is certainly sufficient to put a scuba course in the market that finds a nice balance between those, but because many (most?) shops use training as a loss-leader, they want it done a quickly and for the least amount of cost possible.
R..
Papa_Bear:
There's nothing elitist about enabling everyone to improve instead of just getting by. To me it seems more elitist when you say something like, "not everyone needs to be at my level of my diving."
Papa_Bear:
True or not dive at all, but a more comprehensive approach doesn't make it more unattainable. It makes it easier. It require a little more time, but if someone can find the time for X number of lessons in one week, they can find the time for 4X number of lessons over 4 weeks.
Papa_Bear:
Me too. If I were considering learning to dive and read that the goal of my class was for me to merely survive, I might reconsider. I want to survive, but I want to do so easily, without fear and I want to be skilled enough top actually have fun.
NetDoc:
We agree more than you might imagine. What makes it a lie is making it an absolute. I agree it can be true. I've seen those excellent instructors you mention. The agency writes the standards and the standards often determine exactly what is taught.
NetDoc:
Yes, attitude is extremely important. Some instructors are always looking for ways to improve their classes. Those instructors will figure out how to teach an excellent class under any agency's standards. Unfortunately, that attitude is not all that common. Many instructors teach the exact minimum standards.
NetDoc:
True. Most will follow the recipe exactly. If the recipe is an excellent one, the meal will be excellent. If the recipe is a poor one, we really don't want it served to us. An excellent chef will enhance the poor recipe and produce a wonderful meal. Excellent chefs aren't all that common.
Papa_Bear:
That scares me. Did the diver barely make it back alive? Did another diver rescue him? Did his buddy safe him several times?
Teamcasa:
I doubt it is.
Papa_Bear:
Not to me. Perhaps it is to you, perhaps to others, but certainly not to me.
Papa_Bear:
Absolutely not! No one is advocating that. Some are happy with the way most folks teach diving, others encourage instructors to look for ways to improve and offer suggestions. No one is trying to force changes on anyone.
Papa_Bear:
There's no need. There are already excellent organizations with higher standards doing it better.
that's it .. the instructor is the one who decides if you have, or have not shown .. buoyancy control , Etc ... and He is the one who decides to pass, or FAIL you (mine has done so, but he would just give you more instruction if you were actually trying and not just blowing off the class)
Why not make sure the instructors training is good, then he will turn out good students
Wouldn't that be better than specifying every last little detail of OW passing requirements
Edit: good point about the shops Diver0001, I know that can be an issue, and they have inquired about the lower diver count/time spent that my instructor takes (note, but they did add another pool session to OW when my instructor told them that he needed it to teach)
I'll tell you what mine told me about why he teaches the way he does ... A well trained diver is a safe diver, to himself, and his buddies and he will not get "scared" by some incident and stop diving .. he will continue diving and be a good steward to our oceans (and not only that, they're lots of cool stuff to see down there)
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