How does Nitrox work?

[vladimir]

Back to the original thread... I may have changed my mind about Nitrox... not because you've all convinced me... but listen to this story... this actually just happened.

A customer of mind just came into my store... in fact he's still sitting next to me as I type this...

He just got back from a dive trip to North Carolina. He is a recently graduated student who is NOT Nitrox certified.

He just informed me that the outfit he dove with in NC filled his tanks with 30% Nitrox. He had told them he wanted air... and when he went in to get his tanks... they told him they had filled it with 30% Nitrox. They told him "don't worry about it - it'll be OK."

No education... no mention of MOD... no requirement for a C-card... and apparently no-concern for the customer's safety.

I suppose I would find this outrageous... except that it seems to fit the mentality of those on this board that oppose my opinion. Nitrox is the end all be all gas... totally safe... no worries.

Now that I know dive operators are out there filling peoples tanks with 30% Nitrox without an educational requirement... I just may have to join you guys... and certify everyone in Nitrox... at least I'll be able to sleep at night knowing they're educated on its use.

Am I the only one that sees a problem with what this operation did?

You lose what little credibility you have with statements like this. If you look back to the start of this thread it will help you recall that the discussion was about whether a nitrox course was a good idea, not whether using nitrox was always a good idea. I, and others, came down firmly in favor of the course, but I didn't advocate strongly for using nitrox, because, as you have said, for new recreational divers, nitrox often has no benefit. Unfortunately, you took that reasonable point of view too far by making a blanket assessment of nitrox use that just doesn't stand up to the facts that anybody who has taken the course has at their disposal. I guess you see some benefit in appearing the maverick or the visionary in promoting your dive business. Good luck with that.

 

[Teamcasa]

No. There is a problem and in a perfect world, your customer should have told them, "I'm not trained to dive Nitrox, please re-fill my tank.".

This is clearly a shop integrity issue and has nothing to do with the merits or problems with Nitrox. Nitrox is just the vehicle of the shops misdeeds.

Frankly guys, You're all giving the dive op that did this more credit than they deserve

What credit?

 

[DandyDon]

Finally, it sounds like Don is agreeing with me : )

HARDLY! :silly: Cost is always a factor. It's still often beneficial and in some cases very indicated, therefore the card essential for serious diving in the long run.

Pardon the editing above but let me ask this, If Nitrox was the same cost as air and the dives were well within MOD limits would you use it?

Yes & No... usually no.

If I were diving where Nitrox made a significant impact on the diving I was doing... like say I decided to do some hardcore (multiple dives over multiple days) mid-range diving with limited time for surface intervals... then yes, I would dive Nitrox. I've stated numerous times it has it's place.... but not for the average recreational diver. The anecdotal marginal amount of safety everyone is talking about is barely a reality for someone doing one or two dives at the local quarry or even a 3 day trip to Cozumel doing 2 dives a day.

In general... my answer is NO... but there are exceptions to every rule

Many of us vacation divers do 4 or more a day.

Well that would explain a lot...I would be doing maybe 30 or more dives..

More of a diver. :cool2:

 

[Teamcasa]

Note:
This and other threads in Basic Scuba, are intended to help new divers and others seeking basic Scuba advice, not personal shots, smiley or not.

 

[Diver0001]

What credit?

Let's just say the loud moaning sounds you hear any time a shop does something dumb and potentially dangerous were replaced in a couple of cases by justifications of their action, talking about how it's ok if the MOD is deeper than the hard bottom etc.

There's a question of principle at play here that is more important than if the dive site was deep enough.

Saying something like

if the site he was going to dive had a hard bottom well above the MOD, he is not taking much of a risk diving 30%. The bottom line is they did tell him and he did take the gas and he did do the dive.

or this

I guess it depends. Was he renting tanks and using them independently? Or were they giving him gas to use on dive sites of their choosing (shallow enough bottom that it doesn't matter)?

or this in combination with a comment saying essentially "I don't believe this happened".

Oh, I've had 30% banked Nitrox put into my pony there before

But these comments raised more than one of my eyebrows (because I can't "do" a Mr. Spock ). I just thought that a shop that knowing filled and provided Nitrox to a non-nitrox certified diver would have gotten a harder reaction. As I said, it's a matter of principle.

R..

 

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[DandyDon]

Oh, I've had 30% banked Nitrox put into my pony there before

But these comments raised more than one of my eyebrows (because I can't "do" a Mr. Spock ). I just thought that a shop that knowing filled and provided Nitrox to a non-nitrox certified diver would have gotten a harder reaction. As I said, it's a matter of principle.

Sorry, they asked if I wanted air or 30%. I chose 30% that time.

 

[offthewall1]

I would think the Insurance company of the offending shop/operator would be interested in knowing they're providing a mixed gas to someone who is not certified in its use. This has got to be a violation of their policy.

It would also seem (if the person doing it is an Instructor) a violation of ethical standards for the training agency they're certified to teach through.

As someone else noted, it is quite surprising to hear some of you think this is no big deal.

 

[Stay Thirsty]

Back to the original thread... I may have changed my mind about Nitrox... not because you've all convinced me... but listen to this story... this actually just happened.

A customer of mind just came into my store... in fact he's still sitting next to me as I type this...

He just got back from a dive trip to North Carolina. He is a recently graduated student who is NOT Nitrox certified.

He just informed me that the outfit he dove with in NC filled his tanks with 30% Nitrox. He had told them he wanted air... and when he went in to get his tanks... they told him they had filled it with 30% Nitrox. They told him "don't worry about it - it'll be OK."

No education... no mention of MOD... no requirement for a C-card... and apparently no-concern for the customer's safety.

I suppose I would find this outrageous... except that it seems to fit the mentality of those on this board that oppose my opinion. Nitrox is the end all be all gas... totally safe... no worries.

Now that I know dive operators are out there filling peoples tanks with 30% Nitrox without an educational requirement... I just may have to join you guys... and certify everyone in Nitrox... at least I'll be able to sleep at night knowing they're educated on its use.

Am I the only one that sees a problem with what this operation did?

sorry to get in the thread so late. yes i can say this story is valid because i'm the customer in this story. no i will not put the charter boat out there but i can tell you they run out of Atlantic Beach, NC. before going on the trip i called and asked what certifications my girlfriend and i needed to dive, i told them we were not nitrox certified, and i told them we wanted a dive master because my girlfriend was nervous and didnt want to dive unfamiliar waters with it being just us. i was told we were certified to go and there would be no problems.

i was using steel 117's filled with regular air and having my computer set (default) to use regular air (i was the only one not using nitrox) and she rented tanks which they filled with 30% nitrox only. we only did one dive because my divebuddy was seasick and didnt want to do another dive. when the 1st day was done i had 1 full tank of air and 1empty tank so i told the divemaster and captain (who ran the trip and did the air refills) i need a tank refill of regular air and when i told them that they said ok but they were stunned to hear i was diving on air. well i wasn't because i dove 110ft before on air and lived to tell about it.

the next day we did 2 dives. they gave her nitrox when i showed up to the boat the told me they filled up my tank with 30% nitrox (i was a little pissed about that) then the rented me another tank od the same mix and they said even though i wasn't certified, "it would be ok. just dont set your computer to the mix. dive as if you were using regular air." (which i didn't know how to do. i didn't know anything about PO2 or MOD because i wasn't certified) i took the other nitrox tank because i wasn't sure if changing air on the same dive would have a negative effect. we both dove the second day to a bottom depth of 110ft again and everything went well. at the end of the day they offered us to take a nitrox course to get certified for $50.00 but if i didn't want to take it then i could just get certified online.

now that i am taking the course and it seems like there's a lot more you as a diver need to be aware of, or divemaster should be aware of then to just be telling people they will be ok. since taking this course i believe divers need to have an understanding of nitrox principles before diving with whatever mix they choose.



"I live on a one-way street that's also a dead end. I'm not sure how I got there." Steven Wright

 

[offthewall1]

OK... so now we've heard from the man himself...

I think he made his point quite clear...

Anyone of you who is an Instructor, Dive store owner, Dive Master etc... should be reported to your agency, insurance company etc... if you're out there dispensing Nitrox to uncertified (Nitrox) divers. To think or try to make a point otherwise only shows your complete ignorance and disdain for dive safety.