Hog harness: stop stuff from moving around waist belt?

[divad]

ps. I know somebody is going to tell me (thoroughly) how horrible those coiled lanyard things are and how I should never use them again. They were on sale for $5 each, so I bought a couple just in case I ever have a use for them. NBD if they turn out to be trash.

 

[eelnoraa]

Hmmm. . . I dive an HP120 in cold water. Assuming I'm carrying 0 excess lead, that is still > 8.5 lbs of air. That is a lot to swim up, if poo happens, dropping $15 bucks of lead doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me. . .

Have you tried? 8.5lb negative is not too hard to over come with head above water, at least with XL jet fins in my case.

In fundie, our instructor asked us to empty the wing with full tanks (double LP80 fill to 3000psi in my case, maybe total 180CF of 32%), and tried to kick to stay floating. All of us were able to maintain head above water for at least 1 minutes. We stopped after 1 minutes, I was tired and kicking vigorously, but it is not impossbile.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

I said:

I recently filmed myself ditching about 28 lbs of lead and then filling my BC with about 40 lbs of air and doing a buoyant flared ascent..Probably faster than 60 feet per minute... but I was much more buoyant than most divers would ever be after ditching all their lead. Ascent was effortless and controlled.

You Said:

Thank you much Lynn.

To Dumpster


Also bull f*cking sh!t you were 70lbs positive and had a controlled ascent at anything less than 100ft/minute unless you have fins the size of an orca, please post that video here so we can judge your "effortless and controlled" ascent ourselves. Dropping the weight belt I MIGHT be able to see at 30lbs, but there is absolutely no effing way you were 70lbs positive at depth, plus the buoyancy gained by the wetsuit, and you were able to have anything remotely "controlled". That is nothing short of suicidal.

I was wearing two weightbelts with the intent of filming this. The first belt was 10-11 lbs (and needed for that suit) and the second was 16-18 lbs and was not needed at all. You can see the BC is very full. It is a large SP Kighthawk BC and I think the bladder was full or close to full. Not sure exactly how buoyant I was, but it was a lot.

I kept my fins tucked, because that is what felt was required to maintain the horizontal position with all the lift at my chest. The depth was maybe 11 -14 feet... not really sure. Somebody can estimate the ascent speed since the video is real time.

I did the video to show that being buoyant and ascending is not necessarily a death sentence. I do NOT recommend anyone repeat this little demo, since I was VERY buoyant.. more than anyone should be after dropping some lead under normal conditions... unless they failed to vent the BC on ascent..

To make a general statement that ditching lead at depth should be avoided at all costs is ridiculous.

[video=youtube_share;RQMkkozYbbw]http://youtu.be/RQMkkozYbbw[/video]

 

[TSandM]

I took the documentation diver class with JP Bresser in 2013. I had my camera clipped off with one of those coiled lanyards, and not one word was said about it. He did take issue with me having the camera on the left chest d-ring; he wanted it on the right, I assume so it wouldn't interfere with the management of stages. I have tried to honor his teaching, but the darned camera keeps ending up on the left

Stuart, the prescription for fin straps that cannot break has in mind diving in environments where a broken fin strap would be a very big issue. If you have kicked your way 2 hours back into a cave and you break a strap and can't repair it, it is going to be a very long slog home. That said, I am currently using Mares Power Planas, and they come with a rubber elastic strap. I inspect it frequently and so far, there have been no signs of fatigue or cracking. We'll see how long they last. Metal springs with a positive connection are no doubt safer. For open water diving, I doubt even the most doctrinaire GUE diver would mind the springs that fit your fins. Maybe AJ . . .

 

[PfcAJ]

I took the documentation diver class with JP Bresser in 2013. I had my camera clipped off with one of those coiled lanyards, and not one word was said about it. He did take issue with me having the camera on the left chest d-ring; he wanted it on the right, I assume so it wouldn't interfere with the management of stages. I have tried to honor his teaching, but the darned camera keeps ending up on the left

Stuart, the prescription for fin straps that cannot break has in mind diving in environments where a broken fin strap would be a very big issue. If you have kicked your way 2 hours back into a cave and you break a strap and can't repair it, it is going to be a very long slog home. That said, I am currently using Mares Power Planas, and they come with a rubber elastic strap. I inspect it frequently and so far, there have been no signs of fatigue or cracking. We'll see how long they last. Metal springs with a positive connection are no doubt safer. For open water diving, I doubt even the most doctrinaire GUE diver would mind the springs that fit your fins. Maybe AJ . . .

Nah, even I wouldn't say anything.

But of the strap broke believe me there would be relentless clownin' on you about it!

 

[tbone1004]

7 seconds, from 11ft is 94ft/minute, 14ft gives you 120ft/min, quite far off from the 30ft/min ascent rate recommended by most agencies.
Second weight belt since it wasn't needed doesn't count, and the Knighthawk is 45lbs lift, so 50lbs is about right.

With full information presented there I'll remove the suicidal bit, mainly because of the shallow depth and that 50lbs is a lot less terrifying than 70lbs buoyant, but the fact still remains that your ascent was between 3x and 4x the recommended maximum ascent rate, and if you were anywhere near your NDL's you'd be liable to get you bent, or worse suffer from an embolism....

In a recreational environment, you still shouldn't have to ditch lead at depth, you shouldn't be near negative enough to not be able to atleast start and maintain and ascent, if you are, you frankly shouldn't be diving in those conditions, plain and simple. The inability to kick that rig up can be fixed by having redundant buoyancy, or ensuring you did a proper weight check.

Most importantly, at the end of the video you proved my point. You kicked down against 10-11lbs of wetsuit buoyancy, which means that the OP could just as easily kick up the 10-11lbs of non-ditchable ballast..... Thanks for that

Aj, would it be the strap if it broke or the buckle? The buckle is usually what gets people, one of the tabs starts to get weak and if they put just enough pressure on it, usually during a back kick or flat turn one of the ends pops out.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

7 seconds, from 11ft is 94ft/minute, 14ft gives you 120ft/min, quite far off from the 30ft/min ascent rate recommended by most agencies.
Second weight belt since it wasn't needed doesn't count, and the Knighthawk is 45lbs lift, so 50lbs is about right.

With full information presented there I'll remove the suicidal bit, mainly because of the shallow depth and that 50lbs is a lot less terrifying than 70lbs buoyant, but the fact still remains that your ascent was between 3x and 4x the recommended maximum ascent rate, and if you were anywhere near your NDL's you'd be liable to get you bent, or worse suffer from an embolism....

In a recreational environment, you still shouldn't have to ditch lead at depth, you shouldn't be near negative enough to not be able to atleast start and maintain and ascent, if you are, you frankly shouldn't be diving in those conditions, plain and simple. The inability to kick that rig up can be fixed by having redundant buoyancy, or ensuring you did a proper weight check.

Most importantly, at the end of the video you proved my point. You kicked down against 10-11lbs of wetsuit buoyancy, which means that the OP could just as easily kick up the 10-11lbs of non-ditchable ballast..... Thanks for that

Aj, would it be the strap if it broke or the buckle? The buckle is usually what gets people, one of the tabs starts to get weak and if they put just enough pressure on it, usually during a back kick or flat turn one of the ends pops out.

If the BC has 45 lbs of lift than I was 55 lbs buoyancy on ascent. I never said 70 lbs, I described exactly what I did. Furthermore it is absolutely ridiculous to talk about ascent rates of 30 fps when we are contemplating last ditch efforts to survive an accident.

Proved your point... LOL You waived the F'n BS flag and I think it slapped you in your face.

Still going to stand by your comment that it is better to drown on the bottom than to EVER ditch lead?

 

[tbone1004]

you said you ditched 28lbs, with 40lbs in your wing, that implies you were 68lbs positive. You were also in 0 control of that ascent, effortless yes, but controlled means you can stop it, you slowed it to 100fpm.

Wing failure should never be latch ditch efforts to survive an accident, minor inconvenience for recreational divers at worst.

and yes, you proved my point by kicking down against 10lbs of buoyant force, if you can kick down, you you can kick up, odds of a wing failure and a reg failure at the same time are 0, so I'd much rather be breathing and kicking up against 10lbs negative for the first 20 feet than come flying up, likely getting bent, and potentially dying from an embolism, so yes in a recreational environment, if you are weighted properly, you should never have a situation where you need to ditch lead at depth, at the surface is different, but there should never be a reason to ever ditch lead at depth for recreational dive profiles.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

LOL.. you win, Recreational divers never, ever carry more than 10 lbs of lead.. I learn something on here every day.

 

[PfcAJ]

Aj, would it be the strap if it broke or the buckle? The buckle is usually what gets people, one of the tabs starts to get weak and if they put just enough pressure on it, usually during a back kick or flat turn one of the ends pops out.

Either one would result in a similar amount of clownin'.

I seent both break before.