Hog harness: stop stuff from moving around waist belt?

[stuartv]

I have a BPW with a Hogarthian harness. Currently, I don't have anything on my waist belt. I'm a new diver and I've only been diving in warm water. But, I'm thinking of adding a DIR-style belt sheath with some EMT shears, and also maybe some small weight pockets, so I'll have some ditchable weight. When I dove in the Caribbean a couple of weeks ago, I ended up needing 10 # of weight and I had it all in the trim weight pockets on one of my cam bands. The idea that I could not dump any of it made me think I should have some weight pockets for the waist belt.

So, the question is, if I put 2 of the small Dive Rite (just for example) weight pockets on my belt, and a sheath for shears or a knife on the left side, what do I do to get them to stay where I want them and not slide around or fall off when I take the rig off?

It appears that the official DIR answer is to use a plastic belt buckle on the right side waist belt, to keep the weight pocket on that side back near the BP. And the steel belt buckle on the left side waist belt is supposed to keep anything on that side from being able to fall completely off. But, I'm not totally happy with that answer. It seems like, at LEAST, it would be annoying to have the sheath and weight pocket on the left side moving around anywhere they want between the BP and the buckle - including potentially interfering with using the left side D ring.

The obvious answer seems to be to put a plastic buckle on each side, to contain "stuff" between the BP and that buckle. But, that seems a bit cumbersome/expensive?

On a side note, it seems like maybe "real" DIR divers simply don't dive with ditchable weights? Or they use a separate weight belt? I definitely don't want a separate weight belt. That's just 1 more piece of equipment to buy/don/doff/lose. Or do I just make sure I'm always diving with the right amount of weight (enough to hold a SS, but little enough to swim it up) and not worry about having any of it be ditchable?

Additional side note: I was looking at the knife+shears+sheath they have on DGX. I don't see anything for retention of the knife or shears in the sheath other than just the friction of insertion. The shears, in particular, look like they would easily fall out or be easily knocked out by accident. Do any of y'all use this set that DGX sells? Are the shears truly secure in that sheath or do you modify it in some way to ensure the shears don't get lost?

 

[TSandM]

If you are using that little weight, why not put a few pounds on a simple weight belt? It's a lot cheaper than buying weight pockets.

It's been my (limited) experience that the weight pockets are generally fairly difficult to thread onto the harness, and are not particularly prone to moving, although I could imagine difficulties if you had quite a bit of weight in them. Nothing comes off over the left-hand buckle, and the knife sheaths move very little.

DIR divers dive balanced rigs and often don't worry a great deal about having ditchable weight.

 

[eelnoraa]

Knife sheath goes on the left side of the waist strap. It is light enough that it isn't going to slide around at all. At least mine hasn't give me any issue.

For weight pockets, I have used (but no long) XS scuba quick attached pocket ($10) on the left side, between the left d-ring and the backplate. For the right side, I don't even other with pocket at all. I just slide a 2-3lb bullet against the backplate, then use a buckle hold the weight there. If I need to ditch the weight, I just release the weight strap from the main buckle, then release the 2nd buckle holding the weight, they will just fall out.

DGX type of knife sheeth has been working well for me. Never lost a knife from fall out of the sheath, but I have lost a few knives for other reason. Losing a knife isn't a big deal tho. I now use DIYed cut off Ikea stainless steel steak. They are $6 for a pack of 4. I am still on my first pack.

One more note, I have tried those DR QR weight pockets. They are bad design IMO. First, they take too much waist real estate. Second, they only well when almost full. If you put 2lb bullet there, the bullet will fall out through the openning. Third, they are way too expansive for what it does

 

[decompression]

Congrats on choosing the backplate/wing set up. Just remember the Hogarthian set up isn't just equipment, it's a mindset the includes training/mentorship. But you've made the first step, from here on in all your equipment choices should "make sense". Yes, many DIR divers don't always have ditchable weights. As we dive a balanced rig (look it up) although certainly it can be an option that a balanced rig has minimal ditchable weights. DGX has small plastic clips for a $1 that secure items on a belt.
https://www.divegearexpress.com/hardware/drings.shtml

For your local diving, figure out how much neg weight you need (balanced rig) and then you can see what your options are.
6 lbs backplate
2lbs STA
8 lbs in pockets on cam band or waist belt
6 lbs weighted STA

See how much you need and then you can figure out how to place it.


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[stuartv]

DIR divers dive balanced rigs and often don't worry a great deal about having ditchable weight.

Well, if I don't really need to worry about having ditchable, then I guess I'll just stick to using the weight pockets I have, that are on a cam band. The setup I have seems to be affording me decent trim, so no reason to change it.

Knife sheath goes on the left side of the waist strap. It is light enough that it isn't going to slide around at all. At least mine hasn't give me any issue.

For weight pockets, I have used (but no long) XS scuba quick attached pocket ($10) on the left side, between the left d-ring and the backplate. For the right side, I don't even other with pocket at all. I just slide a 2-3lb bullet against the backplate, then use a buckle hold the weight there. If I need to ditch the weight, I just release the weight strap from the main buckle, then release the 2nd buckle holding the weight, they will just fall out.

DGX type of knife sheeth has been working well for me. Never lost a knife from fall out of the sheath, but I have lost a few knives for other reason. Losing a knife isn't a big deal tho. I now use DIYed cut off Ikea stainless steel steak. They are $6 for a pack of 4. I am still on my first pack.

One more note, I have tried those DR QR weight pockets. They are bad design IMO. First, they take too much waist real estate. Second, they only well when almost full. If you put 2lb bullet there, the bullet will fall out through the openning. Third, they are way too expansive for what it does

Thanks for all that! On your Ikea knives, do you break off the tip and then grind it smooth? It actually looks like the DGX DIR knife is just about the same thing you're talking about. And only like $6 for 1. I guess $4.50 could be the cost of the labor for them...

Congrats on choosing the backplate/wing set up. Just remember the Hogarthian set up isn't just equipment, it's a mindset the includes training/mentorship. But you've made the first step, from here on in all your equipment choices should "make sense". Yes, many DIR divers don't always have ditchable weights. As we dive a balanced rig (look it up) although certainly it can be an option that a balanced rig has minimal ditchable weights. DGX has small plastic clips for a $1 that secure items on a belt.
https://www.divegearexpress.com/hardware/drings.shtml

For your local diving, figure out how much neg weight you need (balanced rig) and then you can see what your options are.
6 lbs backplate
2lbs STA
8 lbs in pockets on cam band or waist belt
6 lbs weighted STA

See how much you need and then you can figure out how to place it.

Well, "simplify and streamline" is pretty much how I tend to operate. And that's all the Hog harness is for me. Inexpensive, simple, streamlined - and thus, elegant. It doesn't make me feel any obligation to train or mentor.

Mucho thanks for the tip on those clips! I'll have to remember to order some when I order the shears and sheath, just to have on hand. At $0.40 each, how could I not?!

And you do bring up a very good point about my local diving. I needed 10 # in salt water, with my 3/2 suit. In fresh water (the pool), I needed 12 # more for my 7mm suit than for my 3/2. So, if I get a chance to dive, say, off NC, I might need to be able to carry 20 - 22 #. My current setup does not have that much capacity. I have 2 of the XS Scuba weight pockets that are only good for about 5 # each.

eelnoraa, threading weights onto my rig's waist belt would work, but it sounds like a big PITA to have to remove the buckles and D-ring, slide on the weights, then put everything else back together. Then undo it all again afterwards. This is assuming I'm diving off a boat where I'm using weights supplied by the boat or dive op. Hmmmm.... Maybe I should go ahead and buy a cheap weight belt for just in case....

So, no comments from anyone on well a pair of shears will stay in that DIR belt sheath? I mean, it looks like (from the pictures on DGX) it could fall out just from gravity, if you happened to get completely head down. Would a bolt snap on the shears, snapped onto the waist belt D ring be total overkill?

 

[HungoverDiver]

The plastic right hand buckle works well, but if you want something that won't move as much and keeps a ditch able weight pocket in place, you can use a perpendicular rigid D-ring which is also on the DGX link above. Technically not DIR or hog, but it works.


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[decompression]

For the shears you can rig up a loop of bungee to keep them in. I use a knife in a pouch and it rarely comes out. I also use a trilobite and it has a really good pouch.


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[stuartv]

The plastic right hand buckle works well, but if you want something that won't move as much and keeps a ditch able weight pocket in place, you can use a perpendicular rigid D-ring which is also on the DGX link above. Technically not DIR or hog, but it works.

Well, now that I've realized that the plastic belt buckle only costs $1 (!), I reckon I'm okay with using one (or two) of those! LOL

For the shears you can rig up a loop of bungee to keep them in. I use a knife in a pouch and it rarely comes out. I also use a trilobite and it has a really good pouch.

I was already thinking about rigging a bungee loop for the shears. I think I have a notion of how I can do it where it will be secure and reasonably easy to use.

On the Trilobite, I was debating between one of those and the Titanium Tek Line Cutter that is here:

https://www.divegearexpress.com/tools/cutting.shtml

They seems to be roughly the same price. The Tek Line Cutter looks like it would cut bigger stuff and be more versatile (i.e. because of cutting bigger stuff and the extra serrated edge). Thoughts?

 

[HungoverDiver]

Well, now that I've realized that the plastic belt buckle only costs $1 (!), I reckon I'm okay with using one (or two) of those! LOL

Yep they are cheap. The only problem I've encountered is that sometimes the buckle will open and allow the weight/pouch to slide around and out of place on the webbing when donning/doffing your rig. Only an annoyance if anything.


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[divad]

---------- Post added January 7th, 2015 at 05:12 PM ----------

(29 reviews)​

XS Scuba Single Weight Pocket


Black:
$9.95





You can get two of these; put one between the left (bent) D-ring and the other on the right held against the BP by a tri-glide or a buckle. Later you can use the Buckle to hold your light canister.
Or you can use the buckle and pouches to make a weight belt.
Or you can use them as trim weights on a cam band.
For 20 bucks, its good bang for the buck(le).