Hog harness: stop stuff from moving around waist belt?

[Keith.M]

So, how am I supposed to ascend?

Pretty much the reverse as your descent except for the safety stop.

Ascend horizontally, letting some air out of your BC as you rise, stop at your safety stop depth and complete the stop. Then continue on up at an even slower pace and gently rotate to a vertical position so you can look up and also do put your right hand up as you were taught.

It doesn't make all that much sense to be raising your right hand when you are still at 50'.

On descent, I am vertical while I let out my air, then once my head is under, I slowly rotate forward so I am horizontal and have good visibilty to what is below me while still keeping visual contact with my buddy.

 

[stuartv]

Thanks, Keith.

Is there any particular reason or rationale to imply that ascending horizontally is better than ascending vertical (assuming you still just float up rather than swimming up - which I assume is not preferred just because of the extra air consumption involved in swimming)? Ascending vertical still seems like it makes more sense to me, just so you can have a look at where you're going. Like maybe to spot the boat and direct yourself towards it as you go, instead of possibly having a longer surface swim once you're on the surface.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

each 500psi of the AL80 is about 1lb of buoyancy, so if you were fine when you got out with 1500, you should have only had to add 2-3lbs to compensate for the weight of the gas.

Going from pool to ocean is impossible to give an approximation without knowing your total body displacement, but adding 6-8lbs isn't abnormal. The most important thing to take out of your last post for you is to read the last two sentences. One of the first things you should always do when getting in the water with a wetsuit is fully flood the suit. It's a safety thing for deep dives because the air pockets will create a vacuum that can cause damage to the skin, it is a comfort thing, air doesn't insulate particularly well, water does, and it can create issues with buoyancy like you experienced. In a 3/2 with a SS BP/W on an AL80, you are sans STA, so I can see 6-8lbs being realistic to get down. 10 is a probably a little too much and if you flooded the suit all the way you probably would have been fine with the 8lbs especially if your body is of larger volume.

Another incorrect statement by you in this thread. There is no need at all to know his displacement..You only need to know his weight on land and that of his gear... nothing more (if the pool is freshwater)

 

[HungoverDiver]

Thanks, Keith.

Is there any particular reason or rationale to imply that ascending horizontally is better than ascending vertical (assuming you still just float up rather than swimming up - which I assume is not preferred just because of the extra air consumption involved in swimming)? Ascending vertical still seems like it makes more sense to me, just so you can have a look at where you're going. Like maybe to spot the boat and direct yourself towards it as you go, instead of possibly having a longer surface swim once you're on the surface.

While I don't know for sure, I'm assuming it has to do with off-gassing during ascent. Being horizontal allows for equal pressure across your whole body for off gassing, where if you are vertical, your head is 5 feet shallower than your feet, making a pressure gradient. Although if you level out at a deep/safety stop, I don't see how this would matter. It seems that minute or two you spend swimming up (with the aid of increasing buoyancy) would be negligible for off-gassing or air consumption.

For what it's worth, I ascend vertically and then level off at intervals until I reach my safety stop. But that has more to do with controlling my ascent/buoyancy.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

Horizontal ascents, by necessity are buoyant ascents. I think it is not a good idea to teach new divers to ascend in a buoyant condition. I always felt it was better to teach the diver to ascend in the vertical position and ever so gently swim up.

Some of the fanatics will tell you that the increased surface area of the prone position will reduce the chance of an ascent getting out of hand.

I don't think it makes a whole lot of difference how you ascend once you have a really good handle on your control, but for new divers straight up is better in my opinion.

Also you have a much better view of the water column and can scan for sharks etc. if you are vertical, face your buddy and watch each other's back.

 

[decompression]

Horizontal ascents, by necessity are buoyant ascents. I think it is not a good idea to teach new divers to ascend in a buoyant condition. I always felt it was better to teach the diver to ascend in the vertical position and ever so gently swim up.

Some of the fanatics will tell you that the increased surface area of the prone position will reduce the chance of an ascent getting out of hand.

I don't think it makes a whole lot of difference how you ascend once you have a really good handle on your control, but for new divers straight up is better in my opinion.

Also you have a much better view of the water column and can scan for sharks etc. if you are vertical, face your buddy and watch each other's back.

I'll disagree with this one, sorry DD, just my preference. I teach my students to ascend horizontal for a couple reasons. One, they were taught to descend and perform all drills horizontal, why a change now? Second, I detest people hanging at a anchor line vertical, especially if it's low vis and good current. Still very easy to look into the beautiful green eyes of my buddy (wifey [emoji6]). A diver ascending horizontal to me says I am in complete control of my ascent, gives me a warm fuzzy. If you descend/ascend your feet are pointing down and it's an easy thing to kick and get the vis to pea soup, that makes me grumpy. I have a great view horizontal while helicoptering, no need to twist the fins thrust downward on the other divers below me trying to hold a position on the line. I love to see my students ascend just using their lungs, no need to swim and cause the usual silt outs. Why do you say a horizontal ascent is by necessity a buoyant ascent? I want to understand what you mean.


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[dumpsterDiver]

If you are not hauling yourself up an anchor line or crawling up a gradual slope, the only way to move straight up, if you are flat on your belly- is to float up... Of course if you have divers on an anchor line and there is any current, they should put their head into the current and lay out flat on the way up the line.

 

[AdivingBel]

I'm not as skilled as TSandM. I generally get a bit negative and slowly fin up. I would rather drop down a bit than risk an uncontrolled ascent. Once I get to my safety stop, I get neutral and hang. After my stop, I again get slightly negative and fin upward even more slowly. This is the point with a new diver it can get away from you. You don't want to cork. I know it seems like a lot of steps, but it becomes automatic. Once you're more skilled, it's 2nd nature and you can ascend in whatever orientation you choose. Just no uncontrolled ascents, please. We don't want to lose you. You're too much fun on ScubaBoard.

Hang on your stop in whatever orientation is convienient. I don't like kicking divers below me either. I'm generally in warm blue water so silting on my ascent isn't an issue.

 

[nimoh]

Why would you have a risk of an uncontrolled ascent but not a risk of an uncontrolled descent?

 

[TSandM]

There are a lot of advantages to a neutral, horizontal ascent, but it does take just a bit more skill.

The first advantage is that, if you are horizontal, any motion of your fins does not change your depth. If you are depending on being negative and swimming up, you must precisely balance your propulsion with your tendency to sink; if you get distracted for any reason, you may exceed your desired ascent rate, or you may sink quite a bit. This type of problem shows up when divers learn to shoot a bag underwater, and can't keep their buoyancy right while doing so. If you are horizontal and get "happy feet" while managing a task, all you do is lose station, but you don't change depth.

Second, a horizontal ascent allows you remain in good eye contact with your buddy or buddies. Ascents and descents, when things are changing, are the times when people have trouble. On descent, they may discover an improperly connected inflator hose, or that their gas isn't on all the way, or they may have trouble equalizing. On ascent, they may get vertigo, or a reverse block. If you are facing them, you will immediately be aware of the problem, and it is very easy to stop and help.

Third, a horizontal ascent is inherently more stable, because you are presenting a larger cross-section to movement through the water column.

It really is the only practical way to ascend in a dry suit (unless you are willing to put up with horrendous squeeze, as your vertical position allows all the air to escape from the suit.)

I do rotate to the vertical after the last stop, in order to watch for traffic or avoid coming up into the boat hull. I do not do that if I am swimming in to shore.