Help me choose my first rebreather Kiss Sidewinder vs Triton

[cerich]

You seem to be applying different standards and expectations to the KISS and your other Unit. You describe two cases where you got water intrusion on each unit but NEITHER incident resulted in a caustic cocktail scenario.

In the Kiss you call this out as scary but on your other unit it's impressive that you didn't have a problem?

if a piece of kit simply doesn't make a person feel comfortable, not using makes sense. Now, it's good to discuss how or what made them feel that way and break down so as to understand the concerns. That may lead to agree or disagree with conclusions.

But.. again, not comfortable with kit is not the way to go. I would encourage to get a bit more time and maybe get more comfortable. but some levels of uncomfortable for some folks means pushing thru is a BAD idea.

 

[rddvet]

You seem to be applying different standards and expectations to the KISS and your other Unit. You describe two cases where you got water intrusion on each unit but NEITHER incident resulted in a caustic cocktail scenario.

In the Kiss you call this out as scary but on your other unit it's impressive that you didn't have a problem?

I’m not applying different standard. As I stated I could get a ton of water in my fathom and the sorb will likely stay bone dry. Both the guy in my class and I got a small amount of water in the sidewinder loop (he significantly more than me) and both had wet sorb that was wet enough to create caustic liquid at the bottom of the exhale tower. I did during the class feel like I was comparing two girlfriends. I was very surprised how many of the things I take for granted about my fathom were missing in the sidewinder (such as good wob, baffles to protect the sorb if water gets in the loop, ease of dewatering, etc). The lack of those features combined with how water intolerant the sidewinder is, and one other issue I don’t want to get into publicly all make me uncomfortable with the sidewinder. As cerich says you’ve got to be comfortable with your kit and all the sidewinder did was make my ass pucker. It was not a unit that instilled confidence in me, and not one I want to be in a cave with my wife in.
The sidewinder may be good for you, it just wasn’t a good fit for me. I have yet to see public, honest negative comments on the sidewinder other than rjack discussing its poor flood tolerance. Privately I have had multiple sidewinder divers echo my concerns. It also seems those who chose the sidewinder as their first unit love it unconditionally. Those with previous rb experience seem to be the ones who echo my concerns. My goal isn’t to tell everyone the sidewinders a pos. As stated the class was a positive experience, but I had hoped to walk away in love with the sidewinder. Instead I walked away fully dissatisfied in the unit. My only purpose in posting my experience is so people considering it can actually see comments from someone who didn’t like it. Because currently the only stuff posted anywhere about it is that it’s the bees knees. Hell I bought into the hype.
I definitely compared the two units during class but I also have not compared them with different standards. I was looking for and expecting a Unit I was as comfortable with as my fathom. That wasn’t the case. So maybe the sidewinder has big shoes to fill, but there definitely wasn’t varying standards placed on the two.

edit: I reread your comment and possibly didn’t address it directly enough. Based on my experience with the two, the same amount of leaky lip water influx into the loops of each would lead to wet sorb and as seen in class caustic at the bottom of the exhale tower on the sidewinder and on my current unit would leave me with dry sorb and zero caustic. Even much larger amounts of water in the fathom lead to dry sorb and no caustic. The water tolerances are very very different and the sidewinders makes me uncomfortable because at the end of the day we all make mistakes or have leaky lips from time to time.

 

[Jack Hammer]

Mods: thanks for the cleanup. Chris and I had a pleasant phone call yesterday and we have settled our differences. I look forward to diving with him or enjoying a meal together.

I give you both an A+ for working your differences out and a D- for the associated decrease in entertainment value.

 

[rjack321]

As a "wreck diving trimix" unit the sidewinder is a terrible choice. The are no/limited places to put suit gas, suit heaters, a BO on a necklaced bungie goes on the left and your unit dil is on the right (so you pretty much need to dive the same gas in both left and right BOs) then you have to find places to put your deco gas.

If you don't NEED a sidemount unit don't get one. For wrecks around Europe get a backmounted unit where you have places to put suit gas, heaters, can put an AL80 deep 18/45 BO on the left and a AL80 50% deco gas on the right and you're set down into the 60-65m range for up to 90min runtimes.

The XCCR, a Meg, a kiss classic, a revo, backmounted liberty are all better choices than anything sidemount.

 

[Yamadaty]

Looks like rebreather questions are a very touchy subject around here and thread exploded a bit.

As a "wreck diving trimix" unit the sidewinder is a terrible choice. The are no/limited places to put suit gas, suit heaters, a BO on a necklaced bungie goes on the left and your unit dil is on the right (so you pretty much need to dive the same gas in both left and right BOs) then you have to find places to put your deco gas.

If you don't NEED a sidemount unit don't get one. For wrecks around Europe get a backmounted unit where you have places to put suit gas, heaters, can put an AL80 deep 18/45 BO on the left and a AL80 50% deco gas on the right and you're set down into the 60-65m range for up to 90min runtimes.

The XCCR, a Meg, a kiss classic, a revo, backmounted liberty are all better choices than anything sidemount.

The thing I want something compact for travel and I love diving in sidemount configuration. I got used to it in Asia where getting a twinset could be a pain and I love the overall experience. For suit gas SUMP UK has nice bits and pieces that I already use for my Xdeep so this is solvable.

What about chest mounts like O2ptima or Triton for the applications I've described?

 

[rddvet]

Looks like rebreather questions are a very touchy subject around here and thread exploded a bit.



The thing I want something compact for travel and I love diving in sidemount configuration. I got used to it in Asia where getting a twinset could be a pain and I love the overall experience. For suit gas SUMP UK has nice bits and pieces that I already use for my Xdeep so this is solvable.

What about chest mounts like O2ptima or Triton for the applications I've described?

I prefer side mount too, but sm rebreathers do have limitations. One of the big ones is the ability to carry twin bailout cylinders easily. Many unites like the liberty sm or sidekick take up one side so you have to carry a single bailout and a stage. The biggest pro to the sidewinder is it fixes that issue. So if you need side mount, it’s the best option. The guy in my class also disliked the sidewinder, but he bought it anyway because he had some very specific side mount dives planned.
Tritons aren’t very popular in the US so you may not get much feedback. The chop time seems very interesting and I’d like to get certified on it, but don’t want to have to buy one. The chop time can be used with a single tank, sm, or bm twins. I don’t know anything about how it dives other than what is in superlytes thread

 

[rjack321]

Looks like rebreather questions are a very touchy subject around here and thread exploded a bit.

The thing I want something compact for travel and I love diving in sidemount configuration.

A SM CCR is a specialized piece of kit that does some things extremely well and other things its just horrible at. By the time you put everything you need for cold water wreck diving on a SM CCR you look a lot more like a Christmas tree than a glossy advertisement from Kiss.

The optima has no CE, so you can't buy one in the EU and nobody there can train you on it either. The Triton has CE and they won't freak out about it in places like France where CE is a potential barrier to diving CCR at all. There are also instructors available.

 

[Yamadaty]

A SM CCR is a specialized piece of kit that does some things extremely well and other things its just horrible at. By the time you put everything you need for cold water wreck diving on a SM CCR you look a lot more like a Christmas tree than a glossy advertisement from Kiss.

You already have an Xdeep? So all that you need is a crossover course then.

The optima has no CE, so you can't buy one in the EU and nobody there can train you on it either. The Triton has CE and they won't freak out about it in places like France where CE is a potential barrier to diving CCR at all. There are also instructors available.

Buying one around here is not a problem since there is DiveRite Dealer and I'll figure out how to find an instructor or I'll get a Triton.

The reason why I considering Sidewinder because it would potentially allowed me to keep my sidemount configuration which I love and wouldn't take space on the side. A glossy ad, that's a good one.

What do you mean by Xdeep crossover? It's just my wing and harness, not a rebreather or I misunderstood you?

And regarding the application that I'm going for would front mount one work? It certainly will clutter the front of the suit but how manageable it will be? Have you dived a front mount one?

 

[grantctobin]

Buying one around here is not a problem since there is DiveRite Dealer and I'll figure out how to find an instructor or I'll get a Triton.

The reason why I considering Sidewinder because it would potentially allowed me to keep my sidemount configuration which I love and wouldn't take space on the side. A glossy ad, that's a good one.

What do you mean by Xdeep crossover? It's just my wing and harness, not a rebreather or I misunderstood you?

And regarding the application that I'm going for would front mount one work? It certainly will clutter the front of the suit but how manageable it will be? Have you dived a front mount one?

Where in Asia/what conditions are you planning on using the unit? I agree w RJack in terms of Christmas tree. With 2 LP50s bottom mix, AL80 50%, 2L O2, AL40 O2, 2x20aH batteries, AL13 suit gas, 400g+ undergarments, dry gloves, it’s a cluttered mess on a rocking boat and a real pain without eager help.

On the other hand, in thin undergarments (or a wetsuit), 1 AL80 bottom mix, 1 AL80 50%, 1 AL6 suit gas, and a hand mounted light, it’s really pleasant to travel with and fits in a carry-on box. When I travel, the only thing in my checked baggage is exposure suit, harness, fins, and reels. Carry on box is the canisters (with lights or misc spares inside), loop, 3 sets of regs, canister light, backup lights). Backpack is counterlung, 2 more regs. If I rearranged my backpack, I imagine I could bring my harness with me in carry on too.

Bias: seen a few ChO2ptima, own a Sidewinder, dislike non replaceable items in checked bags. I don’t like the Revo, but it’s probably the most travel friendly traditional style backmount unit. I’d also look into the Spirit LTE. Chest mount unit on a set of doubles might make it easier for the Christmas tree RJack mentioned, but if you’re in cold water off a boat, you really want a traditional backmount style unit.

 

[JMBL]

My 2 cents on the Triton, I'm newly certified (just last week, air diluent deco). It's my 1st rebreather, although I tried several.

Concerning your SM rig, you won't have any problem keeping it with the Triton, it's designed to be used with back mounted or sm mounted cylinders. Of the 4 guys training for the certification last week, I was the only one diving back mount. Why ? Just because I'm not SM certified, nor interested, yet.

The only thing is to get the Triton correctly set on your harness (not too high, not too low), it took us 2 or 3 dives for that, and make some adjustments for the routing of the various hoses. In the end, no big changes. Not altering too much a configuration you're comfortable with is a great relief to me.

Concerning trimix, our instructor dives it regularly on deep wrecks. That's how I first saw a Triton underwater and I was very impressed : not bulky, easy to set, to carry, to maintain...

And after a week diving with it : easy to use and to breathe on. Once again, my experience with rebreathers is limited, I'm not an expert, but so far, I'm very satisfied.

Someone mentioned CE (or EC for European Conformity) already. For me, it was an imperative. Almost 99% of diving centres in France will refuse to let you dive with a non CE rebreather. To the best of my knowledge, no Kiss rebreather, Side winder or other are CE compliant. So depending on your location and the countries where you want to dive, you must be careful.