Help me choose my first rebreather Kiss Sidewinder vs Triton

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Yamadaty

Registered
Messages
33
Reaction score
3
Location
Ukraine
# of dives
100 - 199
I'm looking to get into tech diving and go straight to CCR that is travel friendly.
These two units look like the right fit.

Gonna be diving around Europe and a warmer climate, wrecks, deep dives but not a fan of caves.

I currently dive in Xdeep tec with SUMP UK upgrades.

What I would love is to hear owners or who tried both units your thoughts and cons for the type of diving I'm considering.
At this time I'm leaning more towards Kiss because it has 2 scrubbers and doesn't get your front cluttered.
 
For me the decision was the Kiss and the Optima CM. I think the Optima is hands down better than the Triton. I really couldn’t decide whether the Kiss was better or the Optima so I bought both. The Optima breathes better than any rebreather I’ve ever dove, and I’ve dove most of them. When I travel with it, it weighs 12lbs + the harness. It’s fantastic. But it scooters like crap and spear fishes like crap. These are two areas where the sidewinder is pretty great. The Sidewinder has no flood recovery and floods pretty easily. It also breathes like crap compared to the Optima.
 
Totally forgot about Optima. The only thing I'm not super excited about it is that is eCCR I believe that's why I opted out from considering it but please feel free to change my mind if I'm wrong.
What do you mean by saying it scooters and spear fishes like crap?
If you don't mind me asking why do you think that Optima is better than Triton?

Regarding Sidewinder flooding, can you be more specific on how di you flood it etc?
 
Personally, I now have zero interest in buying a rebreather until I can really put it through it's paces. Ideally I would prefer to do the training on a unit prior to buying it (aka use a rental or borrowed unit). This is very different than my previous position. Previously I felt that a simple "try dive" isn't enough info for an untrained rebreather diver. I actually chose to buy my first rebreather without any try dive at all. The reason being is I knew nothing of rebreathers and the couple of try dives I did prior to training on other units was cool, but I didn't have enough knowledge to make an informed decision. I was lucky and the first rebreather I picked was the perfect one for me, with very few faults in my opinion. Even with 100+ hours of rebreather time, I think a quick 20 minute try dive would only give minimal information. I would much prefer to do a lenghty try dive (which good instructors will allow) or to take the course on a rental unit (which can be hard to do since not many people have rentals).

The reason my opinion has switched is due to the sidewinder. I tried it briefly for about 15 minutes several years ago when it first came out. I really liked it because it trimmed out perfectly immediately. I felt it was awkward to breathe on but I chalked that up to having zero rebreather experience other than those 15 minutes. I've been back and forth about the sidewinder since then because when it first came out so many people said it was a POS with lots of issues. The funny thing is alot of people who claimed it was a POS are now pushing them like crazy (because of a vested interest). I know a few people who dive them (their first rebreathers) that love them and to be honest I bought into the internet hype about how amazing a unit is. I was gung ho on the sidewinder, had no doubts I wanted one, so I set up the course and told the instructor all the add-ons I wanted (such as dil mav and needle valve), and fully planned on leaving the class with a unit. Unfortunately from day 1 I hated pretty much everything about the unit. The only thing I actually really liked about it was it trims you out amazingly well and it's a sidemount rebreather. Other than that, it breathes like crap, it's fiddly to set up, the mavs suck in my opinion, it has what I consider scary flood tolerance, and it's pretty much impossible to not end up with wet sorb. Each day of the class I disliked it even more, and for my diving felt the unit was not safe enough in my hands to be a unit I'd comfortably dive regularly. I left the class without a unit. The instructor was nice enough to just charge me a rental fee equivalent for the unit.

Due to that experience, I would really prefer either a long try dive or more importantly to just take the class without the required commitment to either buy the unit or having had to pre-buy the unit before class. I have an interest in the chest mounted optima, but I won't even consider it unless I can sign up for a class and use a borrowed unit. It does mean you're potentially paying for a class you'll never use or are paying a rental fee, but it's worth it to me. If you pick a good instructor, it will never be a loss in my opinion because you should learn something. Eventhough I hated the sidewinder, the class was still a positive experience and I did learn a few things.

Hope that helps.

One other frustration is that all I heard going into class was how amazing the sidewinder was. Now after class when people with the unit ask me how it went and I explain I wasn't a fan and what I didn't like I get the true negative comments nobody likes to say on the internet. The most common comment I get is an agreeance of how horrible it's flood tolerance is. Of course pre-class when I asked I got "oh it's not as bad as you've heard."
 
Regarding Sidewinder flooding, can you be more specific on how di you flood it etc?

The guy in my class with me didn't close his dsv all the way. It was open only about 10% for maybe a minute or less. After the dive he had caustic liquid at the bottom of his exhale tower. I was doing a crappy job on one of my skills and when letting a little extra lung volume out from my mouth (I have horrible sinus allergies so sometimes exhaling gas quickly through my nose is difficult) I allowed a small amount of water to leak in around my lips. When I broke down my unit there was caustic liquid at the bottom of the exhale tower. Don't misunderstand that as we were going to get a caustic cocktail. It was a very small amount that would never make it through the counterlung and into the inhale side. But at the same time these were both minor mistakes that shouldn't have created any caustic. I can get a ton of water in my current unit and have minimal concern about caustic. Beyond that every single dive the top of the sorb in both cans was moist and I was told that was "normal'. Again, my current unit never has any moisture in the sorb no matter how long the dive. Besides that the sidewinder has no baffles in the loops to stop or slow water progression to the sorb, and it also has no dump on the lung to allow dewatering. Those are all things I now feel are important. I think if someone made a big mistake and unknowingly let a significant amount of water in their loop there is a high potential for caustic.
 
I have done about 500 dives on a Kiss Sprit ( non sidemount config of the same unit ) and never experienced a flood or caustic event. I have had on occasion perhaps 1/2 cup of condensation or liquid in the lungs at the end of the day, no issues with the scrubber at all.

My unit breathes great and I very easy to travel with. I have been happy with reliability, access to parts, and self maintenance is easy. Other than replacement of a worn out Fischer cable I have had no real issues.
 
A few years ago I was rebreather shopping. While the rEvo I got was not on your list, my number two pick is on your list. Kiss.

While I don't have one, I do find it very appealing. Almost an owner. Travel and wrecks are what I wanted it for.
 
Guys, thanks for the feedback, if there is no way to prevent flooding with Sidewinder that's no fun and really offputting.
Superflyte any chance you can answer my questions on Optima CM?
 
Guys, thanks for the feedback, if there is no way to prevent flooding with Sidewinder that's no fun and really offputting.
Superflyte any chance you can answer my questions on Optima CM?

The way to prevent flooding is to close the BOV/DSV all the way. Not to be critical but this is like complaining that your faucet drips if you don't fully close the valve. It's not hard and this is one of the reasons you train extensively to learn your unit and it's requirements and failure modes.

Aside from that if you are diligent with your Positive / Negative tests when setting up the unit and before diving you should have few problems with floods on any unit.
 
I was doing a crappy job on one of my skills and when letting a little extra lung volume out from my mouth (I have horrible sinus allergies so sometimes exhaling gas quickly through my nose is difficult) I allowed a small amount of water to leak in around my lips. When I broke down my unit there was caustic liquid at the bottom of the exhale tower. Don't misunderstand that as we were going to get a caustic cocktail. It was a very small amount that would never make it through the counterlung and into the inhale side. But at the same time these were both minor mistakes that shouldn't have created any caustic. I can get a ton of water in my current unit and have minimal concern about caustic.

You seem to be applying different standards and expectations to the KISS and your other Unit. You describe two cases where you got water intrusion on each unit but NEITHER incident resulted in a caustic cocktail scenario.

In the Kiss you call this out as scary but on your other unit it's impressive that you didn't have a problem?
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

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