Have training standards "slipped"?

[MikeFerrara]

Quite the point. ANY given year, even when training was intense.

I learned a long time ago that if you worked smarter, you didn't have to work harder. I would much rather work smarter.

No argument here.

 

[Hemlon]

Mike,

Show me the data where an increase in death or injury is correlated to the length of the diver's OW class.

(All I hear are crickets chirping.)

 

[SparticleBrane]

Are you seriously advocating for shorter, easier classes?

 

[Hemlon]

Are you seriously advocating for shorter, easier classes?

No, but I'm not romanticizing the past as an era that produced superior divers either.

 

[TheRedHead]

Funny thing too, I got paired with the BIGGEST diver I had ever seen when we were doing our Unconcous Diver drill in the ocean. I was a little intimidated at first, to say the least--- I was like, you want me to drag his butt out of the water?!?!

Your training sounds a bit macho. I had to tow my instructor who was about 6'5" and a biscuit short of 300 pounds. No one buddy breathes to the surface, etc. These exercises are designed to produce stress. Diving is really a mental activity which requires good planning and and the ability to think clearly under stress. Yes, rescue skills are important, but self-rescue skills are more important.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Mike,

Show me the data where an increase in death or injury is correlated to the length of the diver's OW class.

(All I hear are crickets chirping.)

Why the pre-occupation with length? You can do nothing for a long time or a lot in a short time. It takes as long as it takes and not a moment longer.

Training standards are written in terms of what is acheived and that's what I have issue with.

What do you have to say to posts like this? It's pretty typical of what I run into.

I was diving at a local quarry yesterday with a friend who went through the same training curriculum I did and has <50 dives.
We kicked out and several times came across large groups of divers. We both hovered several feet above them, just watching as they walked around on the bottom, moved their legs instead of kicking, fell over because they couldn't stand up straight (my personal favorite), fanned their arms around, destroyed the vis from rototilling, couldn't keep up with their buddies, didn't pay attention to anything...I'm sure you get the idea.

 

[MikeFerrara]

No, but I'm not romanticizing the past as an era that produced superior divers either.

Niether am I. In the past, they had little choice but to light on the bottom if they weren't swimming because they didn't have a means of buoyancy compensation. We've had that now for a long time and it's time to integrate it into training beyond being a brief after thought.

 

[Kingpatzer]

What do you have to say to posts like this? It's pretty typical of what I run into.

I would say that you have some pretty bad dive training in your area.

But that doesn't have much to do with the standards but with how well the instructors are upholding and imparting those standards.

My biggest problem with scuba classes is actually the fact that they are a pre-determined length at all . . .

When we got certified, I was bored silly in our pool sessions. I simply wasn't learning anything after the first few minutes.

My wife, on the other hand, simply couldn't get the hand of anything and had to leave the pool at one point and just cry because she felt so overwhelmed.

She felt rushed through the pool sessions and really wanted to spend more time before going to the OW dives. But that wasn't in the course outline . . . Had she had the opportunity to spend even 1 more hour in the pool, she would have jumped at it, and used it to great effect.

Now, however, she has about 10 dives fewer than I do, but she's a better diver than me . . . she's more carefull about safety issues and she has better bouyancy control (even though I took a PPB course and she didn't . . dang nab it!)

However, in neither case were we roto-tilling the bottom after our certification. We both learned to be horizontal at all times, except for ascents and descents, and to not silt up the lake . . .

 

[Hemlon]

Why the pre-occupation with length? You can do nothing for a long time or a lot in a short time. It takes as long as it takes and not a moment longer.

Training standards are written in terms of what is acheived and that's what I have issue with.

What do you have to say to posts like this? It's pretty typical of what I run into.

The reason that I have focused on training length is that it is a topic that continues to be discussed.

 

[MikeFerrara]

I would say that you have some pretty bad dive training in your area.

My area?

I live in Indiana but I've witnessed lots of training in Il, Ohio, In, Alabama, Florida and i'm sure a few other places that aren';t coming to mind at the moment.

But that doesn't have much to do with the standards but with how well the instructors are upholding and imparting those standards.

On the contrary, with very few exceptions all those classes are well within training standards! It has EVERYTHING to do with standards as written by the agency.

My biggest problem with scuba classes is actually the fact that they are a pre-determined length at all . . .

On the contrary, I don't know of an agency that predtermines length.

When we got certified, I was bored silly in our pool sessions. I simply wasn't learning anything after the first few minutes.

that may tell me more than you can imagine.

My wife, on the other hand, simply couldn't get the hand of anything and had to leave the pool at one point and just cry because she felt so overwhelmed.

She felt rushed through the pool sessions and really wanted to spend more time before going to the OW dives. But that wasn't in the course outline . . . Had she had the opportunity to spend even 1 more hour in the pool, she would have jumped at it, and used it to great effect.

I'll bet money that she was doing good enough to satisfy standards and that is all that is required.

However, in neither case were we roto-tilling the bottom after our certification. We both learned to be horizontal at all times, except for ascents and descents, and to not silt up the lake . . .

That's good but realize that the largest agency doesn't mention trim anyplace in their OW standards and divers are NEVER required to be hoprizontally trimmed up to and including in instructor training and testing!