Have training standards "slipped"?

[Hemlon]

Well said, Eric!

 

[The Chairman]

BTW, the RSTC is meeting here in Orlando August 17-20. If you want to change the minimum standards, try them.

 

[jeckyll]

I can only speak for the local diving (Vancouver, Canada, so cold & dark with plenty of low viz available at times).

IMO, to be properly prepared for local diving (using PADI's courses) you need OW, AOW and Rescue. I'm not adding Nitrox, but that's definitely useful.

We don't have divers getting DCI left right and center, but I think that people get certified with no clues very frequently. Then again, this has all been covered in plenty of threads here on SB.

So, for anyone reading this who is just starting out, make sure you learn about gas management, work on your buoyancy and buddy skills and make sure that you continue to improve your in-water comfort.

Dive often, dive safe.

Bjorn

 

[SparticleBrane]

I was diving at a local quarry yesterday with a friend who went through the same training curriculum I did and has <50 dives.
We kicked out and several times came across large groups of divers. We both hovered several feet above them, just watching as they walked around on the bottom, moved their legs instead of kicking, fell over because they couldn't stand up straight (my personal favorite), fanned their arms around, destroyed the vis from rototilling, couldn't keep up with their buddies, didn't pay attention to anything...I'm sure you get the idea.
Yes, training standards have slipped.
I was not around in the 70s, but I will guarantee you that buoyancy control was taught back then where I was trained...


The woman I dove with remarked later that she felt like she was "at the zoo".

 

[jeckyll]

Sparticle: You had how many divers in the bathtub with you?!

 

[MikeFerrara]

Is there any proof that longer OW courses decrease diving accidents?

I think there is ample evidence that poor skills are often implicated in dive accidents, specifically buoyancy control skills. That much you can find in the DAN report from just about any given year.

Additionally, I think a quick look at some of the recent accidents involving free flows (not to mention past accidents) and a look at what there is regarding free flow management in most courses can be very instructive.

Intuitively, a quick look at OOA incidents and the level of gas mangement taught can shed some light on things.

I don't know about longer but "different" sure seems to be beneficial. But lets move on

After all, staying alive and healthy while being a diver is the ultimate goal...right?

Well, no. I think silt and damaged coral is a far better measure of the effectiveness of training. I started diving at least 10 years before I ever took any formal training and I always intended on surviving and I had NO trouble doing so. The fact is that you can drop to the bottom, walk around for a while and climb back out and probably not get hurt.

In that regard, I'd ask if there is proof that training has done anything at all to avoid accidents? Keep in mind that if not for the marketing and the quick easy certifications, most of these folks wouldn't be in the water in the first place.

As I said before, I think it's time the industry stop taking credit for the accidents that don't happen and start taking a measure of responsibility for the accidents that DO happen.

In the time that I've been diving, teaching and watching this stuff I have NEVER seen an agency make changes to their training standards with the goal of addressing ANYTHING that we see in accident statistics. Every change I've seen has been aimed at increasing the size of the market and maximizing profit. That's just business but as long as the numbers of hurt and dead don't effect their profit margin, they will let them die. Your life is a sacrifice they are willing to make.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Nah, we just don't buy into your gloom and doom outlook on dive training.

You misunderstand me. My outlook for diveing is one of optomism...it just doesn't include certain agencies whom I have no regard for.

We are tired of the entire industry being castigated because they don't train the way YOU and a few others want them to.

I don't care how they conduct training.

Can there be improvements? Sure, and NAUI allows me to incorporate whatever I feel is important into my class.

That's real nice of them but if they cared about the quality of the training the might require more.

Unlike you, I have not given up teaching.

I haven't necessarily given up teaching. All I've given up is sending money to contribute to the delinquency of the agencies I was formerly a member of.

My students benefit from a unique approach to dive training, and I am proud of that. Call that EGO if you want. But I am not going to condemn YOU because you don't train students the way that I do: I expect it.

I believe you. I have no reason to think or suggest that you teach anything other than a fine class. Unlike you though, if I'm going to pay an agency, I'll require more from them.

I understand your position and I don't completely disagree. I miss being able to certify divers. I just can't send the agency another cent.

 

[Hemlon]

I think there is ample evidence that poor skills are often implicated in dive accidents, specifically buoyancy control skills. That much you can find in the DAN report from just about any given year.

We aren't talking about poor skills. We are talking about length of training, Mike.

 

[The Chairman]

I think there is ample evidence that poor skills are often implicated in dive accidents, specifically buoyancy control skills. That much you can find in the DAN report from just about any given year.

Quite the point. ANY given year, even when training was intense.

I learned a long time ago that if you worked smarter, you didn't have to work harder. I would much rather work smarter.

 

[Hemlon]

Quite the point. ANY given year, even when training was intense.

I learned a long time ago that if you worked smarter, you didn't have to work harder. I would much rather work smarter.

Excellent point!