Have training standards "slipped"?

[neil]

Ok... I see... I think. (Not being snarky, but still kind of curious as to why the descrepencies... But, I supposed that I shall remain in the dark on that... ) My buddy and I are able to do it, although, obviously, we'd use our octo first, if we had to, we could do buddy breathing.

Nichole:
To clarify:

-NAUI requires teaching air sharing via octopus, and octo sharing is required in OW as a certification requirement.
-Buddy breathing is not required but may be taught as an option. It may not be substituted for the octo ascent for certification.
-If you did ONLY the buddy breathing, your instructor did not follow standards. Is it a big deal? Not my call, but if you can buddy breathe during an ascent I'd bet you'd have no trouble with an ascent on octo.

 

[bookboarder]

We did both Octo and Buddy Breathing, I was just clarifying that we did buddy breathing, not just using the octo to share air.

ETA: I only asked/answered because people didn't seem to think that we were really taught buddy breathing in our course, as well as sharing air via octo.

 

[MikeFerrara]

If standards were slipping so badly, fatality rates in recreational scuba would be rising not falling, as they have steadily for the last 20 years or so.

We don't know what the fatality "rates are" because we don't know how many active divers there are or how many dives are being done.

Accident and fatality counts have not droped at all in the time that I've been watching the DAN reports (about 10 years).

To help explain that I'd point out that there haven't been any substantial additions to reaining...only deletions, therefor, even if there were any safety improvements you'd be hard pressed to corellate it to any kind of training improvements. There just haven't been any.

Since so much training has become so minimal and short and fatalities haven not shot through the roof, if anything, it probably indicates that the training isn't needed at all inorder to acheive the safety record we have. there are certainly those of us who dived for a long time with no formal training and we didn't die either.

IMO, it's about time the industry stop trying to take credit for the accidents that don't happen and start taking responsibility for those that do!

 

[MikeFerrara]

NetDoc,

Regarding the deep air and narcosis thing, PADI teaches on air/nitrox to 165ft with no option to use helium sooner. They don't seem to agree with you on the inherent dangers of breathing air below 100 ft.

Regarding your assertion that there has been an increase in emphases on buoyancy control, PADI has reduced their buoyancy control requirements over the last few years. Specifically the hovering requirement in confined water was reduced from one minute to 30 seconds and the requirement in OW was reduced from one minute to NO time requirement at all.

In fact, I can't think of a standards change in the last 10 years that has increased the emphases on anything other than getting in the water sooner with less preparation. All the emphases seems to be on saving time.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Sorry...double post.

 

[waterpirate]

I am working on one cup of coffee so bear with me. Times have changed since the dark ages, in my opinion for the better, both the equiptment and the cert card ladder.
My original cert was simply scuba diver. As for standards that stick out: no one passed without ditch and don, no one passed the written test without drowning the rat and planning a deco dive on paper.
I am going to get flamed here, but I have a good nomex suit!lol
I advocate the complete self suffency of all the people I teach. There is no buddy reliance either expressed or implied, and there is complete gear redundancy based on depth and tasks at depth. That being said how they dive or behave after I am done with them is completely up to them and they have my blessing. I produce skill profecient thinking divers, and where there they go is up to them.
To respond to and earlier querry, yes when I finished my initial cert I was comfortable in the water, and skill proficiant whithout being buddy dependant, in the area I planned on diving.
That brings up another sticking point. I trained and certified where Iplanned on diving. 2 days in the keys trains you for the keys. 2 days in the keys and you dive mid-atlantic makes you a train wreck.
Eric

 

[Hemlon]

Posted in another thread in 05/2007:

No matter what the field or course of study, people will always think that it was SO much more difficult back in the days when THEY did it.

I see it all of the time among my peers. In certain cricitical care areas, we are required to have a certification called ACLS. (advanced cardiac life support)

I've been re-certifiying in it for the past 9 years and my peers with equal (or more) experience always tell the newbies that it was SOOOOO much worse back in the good old days.

It doesn't matter what field or course of study, we tend to romanticize the past.

The message that's intended is this: "Back when *I* took the course, it was so much harder so *I* must be SO much smarter than these schmucks today."

Get over yourselves.

 

[Queen]

...The message that's intended is this: "Back when *I* took the course, it was so much harder so *I* must be SO much smarter than these schmucks today."

Get over yourselves.

I can't speak for others but my post had no such intention. Training WAS much harder/longer/complicated when I took it in 1979. It doesn't make me better or smarter, it was just what was available at the time.

I also thought it was sad that so many of my classmates washed out of the OW class back then, they wanted nothing more than to go on vacation with their kids and go diving. I look back on those days and realize how many people were turned away and I wonder how many of them have tried again since the class has become more reasonable.

 

[Hemlon]

Queen,

If it didn't apply to you then feel free to disregard it!

 

[Queen]

Queen,

If it didn't apply to you then feel free to disregard it!

It's a little late since I already replied but I'll remember that in the future.