Have training standards "slipped"?

[waterpirate]

Hemlon,
I could not agree more. Ego is a very hard thing for people to check at the door no matter what the task. The sad thing is that diving is one of those activities where the ego runs rampant, not the skill set. Many divers, instructors included could use a huge heaping helping of humble pie from time to time.
Eric

 

[Hemlon]

Hemlon,
I could not agree more. Ego is a very hard thing for people to check at the door no matter what the task. The sad thing is that diving is one of those activities where the ego runs rampant, not the skill set. Many divers, instructors included could use a huge heaping helping of humble pie from time to time.
Eric

Very true.

 

[agilis]

I think Waterpirate's point about properly done training producing divers who are thoroughly comfortable in open water, and competent enough to plan and execute their dives independently is extremely important. There are many,many divers with 'advanced open water' certification who do not have these abilities, and know it. They are heard from frequently on this board. I'm really not one of those geezers who maintains that everything was better or more difficult in the 'old days'. I know this is absolutely untrue. Nevertheless, it is obvious that some things have changed, and that it is much easier to become scuba certified now as compared to back then. Those who maintain that the higher levels of preparation required in the past were really unnecessary, especially with today's advanced equipment, may be correct. Even if they are correct about that, it is dishonest and/or ignorant to maintain that standards have not been loosened to facilitate the certification of far greater numbers of new divers. Of course, new technology has added new elements to dive training, but Waterpirate's points are still, in my view, the most significant. If someone is dependent on another person for assistance with basic diving requirements, they are not competent divers, at least not yet. Maybe they just need another two days.

 

[The Chairman]

Regarding your assertion that there has been an increase in emphases on buoyancy control, PADI has reduced their buoyancy control requirements over the last few years. Specifically the hovering requirement in confined water was reduced from one minute to 30 seconds and the requirement in OW was reduced from one minute to NO time requirement at all.

I would love for someone to produce a document where a hover was required at all in the 70s.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Hemlon,
I could not agree more. Ego is a very hard thing for people to check at the door no matter what the task. The sad thing is that diving is one of those activities where the ego runs rampant, not the skill set. Many divers, instructors included could use a huge heaping helping of humble pie from time to time.
Eric

This seems especially applicable to training agencies and the proponents of their standards who seem to want to argue against any suggestions for improvement. Somehow, they seem to have gotten the idea that it's as good as it can get or as good as it should be. Talk about ego.

Then of course there are those who are not satisfied with the result they got in the past and work to improve. Those are the ones who are often refered to here as eletists. LOL it's all sort of backwards, if you ask me.

I can't speak for anyone else but most of the things that I propose should be added to training have NEVER been included in mainstream training. It has nothing to with going back to the good old days or making training harder. It has to do with moving forward. IME, the changes I propose make things easier on everyone involved. For some reason though, whenever the subject comes up people start talking about walking to school up hill both ways or doing pushups in full gear. To be honest, I don't know where that came from or how it's relevant.

 

[MikeFerrara]

I would love for someone to produce a document where a hover was required at all in the 70s.

I don't have any documents from the 70's so you win...we're up to 30 seconds now in any position and without having to do anything else. LOL now...that's really getting someplace.

The results seem very clear, it's a mucked up mess out there with some countries seeing fit to require supervision by law for the protection of their reefs. Other countries have legeslation regulating diving...in the interest of safety? There is the measure of the advancements in training.

 

[Hemlon]

Is there any proof that longer OW courses decrease diving accidents?

After all, staying alive and healthy while being a diver is the ultimate goal...right?

 

[waterpirate]

Any implementation or change in standards that produces safer divers should be embraced, but it is not. The whole problem with agencies and standards is what Mike pointed out, the agency has an ego/marketing problem. As for standards, we all have them, but they are open to loose interpretation and execution by many instructors.
We are going to have to agree that diving is different for all people. We must stay vigelent and try to make a impact for safer diving among people who want to be. Myself I am just a person with a lot of dives, I try very hard to leave my ego behind, I try to melt into the background on a dive boat and go about my dives quietly as they suit me. If people ask questions I answer them if I can, If they need assistance I give it, If they express a desire to follow me, I offer mentorship to put them on a path, where they wind up is allways up to them.
This is the way I was trained, by people who cared about people and safe diving. I think it is very effective. Its drawback is that it is not formal, and we do not issue cards. But theese are available everywhere, and for the safe diver taking a class to get a card to do more diving, to meet more people, some who may be far behind him in skill set is a healthy thing.
People with experiences beyond the people they are diving with should feel obligated to "pay it forward" with no ego and mentor those who seek it.
Eric

 

[The Chairman]

This seems especially applicable to training agencies and the proponents of their standards who seem to want to argue against any suggestions for improvement. Somehow, they seem to have gotten the idea that it's as good as it can get or as good as it should be. Talk about ego.

Nah, we just don't buy into your gloom and doom outlook on dive training. We are tired of the entire industry being castigated because they don't train the way YOU and a few others want them to. Can there be improvements? Sure, and NAUI allows me to incorporate whatever I feel is important into my class. Unlike you, I have not given up teaching. My students benefit from a unique approach to dive training, and I am proud of that. Call that EGO if you want. But I am not going to condemn YOU because you don't train students the way that I do: I expect it.

 

[TheRedHead]

I'm still confused on the whole buddy-breathing to the surface thing. Is that not common practice? That was one of my least favorite exercises, but we did do it. That and the unconcious diver, but once I got the hang of the unconcious diver, I was OK with it. Never liked the buddy-breathing, though. Do most instructors not do this?

Buddy breathing is a survival skill and could be dangerous with the wrong buddy. It requires a great deal of trust in your buddy. Buddy breathing with no mask is absolutely creepy. I'd prefer to dive with a safe, well-equipped, responsible buddy.