Greenpeace ship damages reef in Tubbataha

[Spoon]

i thought Gp were generally liked? guess i was wrong

 

[KOMPRESSOR]

i thought Gp were generally liked? guess i was wrong

Depends on where you're at. Over here they are generally disliked. We have a national organisation that "does the job" much better, and holds a credibility since they cannot be "bought". It's name is Bellona, and make their moves where it is really needed. Not just where it's popular among those who support them financially. -And yes, they are much tougher as well

http://www.bellona.no/en/index.html

 

[Spoon]

Depends on where you're at. Over here they are generally disliked. We have a national organisation that "does the job" much better, and holds a credibility since they cannot be "bought". It's name is Bellona, and make their moves where it is really needed. Not just where it's popular among those who support them financially. -And yes, they are much tougher as well

http://www.bellona.no/en/index.html

cool here in the Philippines we are quite misinformed about gp, here they are generally liked and well regarded. most of our info on gp comes from cnn

 

[_Bella_]

i thought Gp were generally liked? guess i was wrong

I worked for GP for two years and think they are a bunch of crackpots. I agree with another poster that very very generally local organizations are usually more knowledgeable about local issues and can therefore drive changes that support not only a local environment and economy but local culture as well. There are very few global ngo's that I would support anymore. I may agree with their general messages, but I'll support a locally driven organization over the bloated multi-national monstrosities that are about as organized as any government office.

 

[miketsp]

Just a comment on navigation.
Too many people these days think navigation started with the invention of the GPS and all they have to do is read off the coordinates & plot them.
Unfortunately many charts in remote regions were produced well before the general availability of GPS so there can easily be an absolute offset due to the error in the star shots taken.
In addition the chart may have been produced with reference to a different horizontal datum.
I have had to use many charts with a 6 cables offset (1 cable = 100 fathoms, 1 fathom = 6 feet) although it is more common to find a 1 to 2 cable offset.
So when navigating around reefs or land with a GPS, the first thing to check is the datum shift of the chart with respect to the GPS readings.

 

[O2BBubbleFree]

I agree with Rick that the fines would have been a lot heavier if it had been anyone else's ship, and I agree with (what I see as) the consensus here that they should have had better navigation skills.

I mean, they had just been studying the reef. It seems to me that they should have had a pretty good idea where it was at. Didn't the captain of the RWII have any clue where the zodiacs were dropping the divers? Were they ferrying divers over a mile to the reef, or were they dropping them closer? But maybe the reef they were studying was nowhere near the reef they hit.

However, I don’t think this incident is nearly as ironic as the sonar research vessel that hit the reef in the Sea of Cortez about a year ago. That really takes the cake.

 

[drbill]

No...
Side scan sonar is generally a towed fish that sees where you've been, not where you're going...

Rick

I haven't captained a vessel in ages, but I thought there were bow mounted side scanning sonar pods in use. Thanks for the clarification, Rick.

 

[Goose75]

...What I find interesting is the general point of view that in Greenpeace's case, running aground was a mistake. Had it been a "regular" commercial vessel Greenpeace and all the rest would be alleging criminal negligence, if not evil intent.
Just as a point of interest, the skipper of the sub that ran aground on an uncharted seamount was relieved of his command and reprimanded.
Rick

I think Rick has it. If GP wants to gain respect from this instead of lose it, they should step back and look at this as if it were an accident by an oil tanker. If they treat themselves to the same scrutiny they do their victims, then they build credibility.

 

[miketsp]

I haven't captained a vessel in ages, but I thought there were bow mounted side scanning sonar pods in use. Thanks for the clarification, Rick.

Bow mounted & towed. Both types are in use but generally bow mounted is just for shallow water use.
The first real difference is the positional accuracy. Bow mounted you know exactly where it is in relation to the navigational input, but more adversely affected by boat noise.
Towed you can get the fish closer to the target and use more sensitive equipment.

 

[jonix]

saw the picture of 2 divers holding a banner which says "SAVE OUR REEFS" in this morning's papers, which easily caught my attention...with a headline saying "Greenpece to be fined for destroying reef"!!!

can't wipe this silly grin off my face