Greatest technological advancement ever!

[danvolker]

I will tell you what's insane. As I stated before, most fins sold in dive stores cost less than $ 7.50 to make and package. They are retailing for $ 200.00. That is why their advertising and distribution is so large. Take it easy the OPS cost more than I can sell it for. $ 700.00 is a deal, but I am not asking you to buy it. It was made for Jean Michel Cousteau's Oceans Future Dive Team. I'll have Blair put up more pictures so you can appreciate its elegance. I'm sorry you can't afford it.

Hey Bob, I am still waiting for the Freedive Force fins !! I just bought some C4 Mustangs ( ultra high end carbon fiber freedive fins... see ALETAS C4 MUSTANG ) which are even pricier than your fins ...and these are fast fins...but I still would love to see what you could do in an ultra long blade format, freedive fin....

Best Regards,
Dan Volker

 

[Tom Winters]

Those are some cool looking fins. I first owned Force Fins back in 1982 when I got a pair of weird blue fins at the Navy Exchange in Pearl Harbor. I had a bunch of different models over the years. The last pair were the Foils that I bought around 5 years ago. I sold them on eBay. well-used, for $100 more than I paid for them when I got hold of a reissue of my first love in fins from the 60's - the old Voit UDTs that were made a few years ago from the original molds.
360 Incorporated "Moving in All Directions"
I have always loved the inane remarks from people decrying Force Fins and pretty much calling them junk without bothering to try them. But you know, they're welcome to their opinion - that's what this great country is all about. During the many years that I used them, I never got them mixed up with other fins on a dive boat.
And these same experts are also welcome to tell the five guys in this photo wearing Force Fins what a bunch of uninformed morons they are for wearing them, but that might mean a visit to a proctologist to have their opinions removed.
I finally got to meet Bob Evans at DEMA up in Orlando and he was going to try to mold up some UDTs in the Tan Delta material. No telling what a pair of those puppies would go for.

 

[Bob Evans]

While I can understand you've taken a lot of flack on the board, I'm not one of your detractors so there's no need for the condescending, "sorry you can't afford them," remark. I'm a big fan of looking at new technology and I personally like the fact that you think outside of the box and push the technology. But the OP wasn't just giving us a heads-up on new and interesting technology that was meant for Cousteau and his dive team, he was stating that these fins were so good that everyone should get a pair. At the point where these fins are being recommended to the masses, the issue of cost is a factor. And for a recreational diver to spend $700.00 on a set of fins there needs to be a monumental reason, or that price is just insane. And yes, I believe that some of the current prices on other brands of fins are also insane. So again my "insane" remark is directed toward the OP's claim that these are the fins that the average diver should go out and get, and not your technology. So putting aside your mean spirited comment, I do find your OPS fin fascinating and look forward to seeing more pics of it and reading more test specs about it.
.

I am apologize for being short. I did spend yesterday finding some cool ops photo's and will have Blair post them. The final production models will be less than $ 700.00 but one up models are very expensive to make. Hopefully my wife
susanne will add to this story. Back in the old days she watched the start of the ops concept. Yes we are both working today, with the staff off.

 

[uncleavi]

Bob,
I dived yesterday with my Tan Deltas and had a great time.
Don't work to hard and if you get bored, call test diver #1

 

[meesier42]

I finally got to meet Bob Evans at DEMA up in Orlando and he was going to try to mold up some UDTs in the Tan Delta material. No telling what a pair of those puppies would go for.

maybe I am wrong here, but believe the SD-1 Military is Bob's version of the UDT Duck feet, with some improvements. and I know Bob told me he is planning on making all of them in TanDelta very shortly, I would hope that you find them to be acceptable replacements for your Ducks. Don't have any idea what they will cost, but the Standard Uretahne Military's rock so I can only image how much better they will be in TanDelta.

 

[uncleavi]

I dived the SD-1 Military made from the Tan Delta material down in Belize and they were a sweet fin!

 

[Bob Evans]

Tom, how cool. The udt fin's are up in my shop and i will start making a production mold. The first pair of smoke black tan delta udt fins will be yours for free. Great photo. Thanks for your support.

 

[danvolker]

Bob,
Here is what I would like in a Force Fin, freediving fin....what I would pay for in your "one off" production concept....

• I like the very long blade concept.....you made a prototype freediving fin years ago, which was a long blade, but it had some tweaking that it still needed...controlability issues for straight line propulsion ...
• You have the ability to customize the flex of the fin for the individual. Even the C4 Mustangs I just bought, at a 40 stiffness, are too flimsy in kick response for my liking--though the 40's are close.
• Probably the biggest limitation for most freedivers in how stiff the fin can be, will be what their ankle, achilles tendon, or to a much lesser degree, what their calf muscles can take ( for me the calf muscles can take it, so for me, ignore this aspect)....You have been removing this problem in the ankle area for scuba divers since the inception of Force fins, so I believe you could make a big blade fin with huge torque, that would NOT trash a freediver's ankles, even though it "can push" much harder than the 40 stiffness rating fins.
• For the freedive fin wearer, fragile carbon fiber blades are desired for their excellent return of power in kick cycle, but force us to be incredibly careful not to overflex the blade ( we can not giant stride into the water, ever, and we do not push off the bottom with them...you have to be careful of them on the boat...etc)....Your material would be far more durable--the only issue would be will it match the return of power that carbon fiber blades like the C4 are famous for....This would be worth experimenting with!!
• Custom lengths would be hot. Serious spearfisherman like normal freedive length blades, but freedivers who do not spearfish, and don't have the radical maneuverabilty issue spearfisherman have, would want an even longer freedive fin, for the extra efficiency ( easy kicking) and speed they would offer.

Please let me know if this is something we could pursue.
Regards,

Dan Volker

 

[dittrimd]

Stuart, Great story thanks for posting about your fins.

Bob are the launch pad line currently available? The website still has them listed as unavailable.

Tom, that picture ROCKS!!! Very cool I would love to hear some more detail about it. I was surprised to see that all the previous jumpers were wearing force fins and the last guy was wearing what looked like the US Diver SAR Shredder split fin. Again I would love to hear more information about the photo.

Bob, I don't think the controversy over your fins will every go away. I think that no matter what the industry, when you have such an amazing cutting edge product that is perceived to be outside the "mainstream" it is always the source of much controversy. I hope you do not let it discourage you and remember that there are a lot of us out there that have seen the "light" so to speak and know just how incredible your products are.

On anonther note I had the opportunity to help "educate" some family members who are planning a snorkeling trip. They were at my lake house and were asking my about purchasing equipment for their trip. For the mask and snorkel I gave them some points about material and field of vision, no real specifics. When it came time to discuss fins I was very specific about which they should purchase. They were skeptical so I had them try my force fins and my rockets. (I keep the rockets around for nostalgia since they were my Dad's and he gave them to me, but also for comparisons like this). Both of them were amazed at the difference.

Keep up the great work!!

Mark D.

 

[meesier42]

Bob,
Here is what I would like in a Force Fin, freediving fin....what I would pay for in your "one off" production concept....

You might be surprised what a one off fin might cost...

• I like the very long blade concept.....you made a prototype freediving fin years ago, which was a long blade, but it had some tweaking that it still needed...controlability issues for straight line propulsion ...
• You have the ability to customize the flex of the fin for the individual. Even the C4 Mustangs I just bought, at a 40 stiffness, are too flimsy in kick response for my liking--though the 40's are close.
• Probably the biggest limitation for most freedivers in how stiff the fin can be, will be what their ankle, achilles tendon, or to a much lesser degree, what their calf muscles can take ( for me the calf muscles can take it, so for me, ignore this aspect)....You have been removing this problem in the ankle area for scuba divers since the inception of Force fins, so I believe you could make a big blade fin with huge torque, that would NOT trash a freediver's ankles, even though it "can push" much harder than the 40 stiffness rating fins.
• For the freedive fin wearer, fragile carbon fiber blades are desired for their excellent return of power in kick cycle, but force us to be incredibly careful not to overflex the blade ( we can not giant stride into the water, ever, and we do not push off the bottom with them...you have to be careful of them on the boat...etc)....Your material would be far more durable--the only issue would be will it match the return of power that carbon fiber blades like the C4 are famous for....This would be worth experimenting with!!
• Custom lengths would be hot. Serious spearfisherman like normal freedive length blades, but freedivers who do not spearfish, and don't have the radical maneuverabilty issue spearfisherman have, would want an even longer freedive fin, for the extra efficiency ( easy kicking) and speed they would offer.

Please let me know if this is something we could pursue.
Regards,

Dan Volker

You should look into the Extra Force TanDelta with Whiskers, in side by side testing with the Picasso Team Black, Cressi Gara (the stiffer ones) and Omer (don't remember model, but it wasn't carbon) fins had them match the speed, albeit the kick rate was a little higher. I can pretty much promise that you can't over kick them, not to mention they are incredibly durable (my pair is 10 years old, with 200-300 dives on them), they look like hell, but they are still awesome. I didn't see where you are located, but if your close I would be glad to let you try them.

I will say this much from my testing, the long blades could make lots of speed, but that speed could not be repeated, all of the divers that did the test showed the same results, great first runs and mediocre second runs even with good periods of rest (at least 3 minutes for a 10-15 second sprint). The ForceFins were repeatable to with very close speeds. The really interesting part was that the stronger divers that could really flex the fin were MUCH faster than the weaker diver that could not "activate" the flex of the fin, even though with other fins (ie Bio-Fin or Jets) the 2 divers were similar. This is why I rarely recommend them to people, as I found that most divers are simply not strong enough to flex the blade enough to make them go and they just get really tired using it.