Government (GASP!) Regulation

[VTWarrenG]

g2,

There already are instructors and instructor trainers in the dive industry. I don't see how this pertains to the discussion.

Of course there are -- my point was there is a DIFFERENCE. A new diver educated by an OWIT is definitely at an advantage over a student educated by an OWI. There's no sense in making all scuba teachers OWITs, to achieve better training, when a single checkout dive/exam with an OWIT is usually all that's necessary to patch up with the OWI missed.

If your contention is that instructors are not qualified to pass/fail diving students, then this is an issue for the recreational scuba diving industry to address.

They all SHOULD be -- but some, sadly, are not. Having a superior authority cross-check the instructor's work would solve the problem nicely.

Tell that to your passengers when you miss the runway in fog.

Ok, a private pilot might hurt a passenger or two, as well as himself. My point was that he certainly is not capable of endangering "lots of people" with his Cessna.

Only if the industry proves unable to do so should the government get involved.

I contend that the industry, in many places, is bordering on incompetency...

- Warren

 

[g2]

Originally posted by VTWarrenG
They all SHOULD be -- but some, sadly, are not. Having a superior authority cross-check the instructor's work would solve the problem nicely.
...
I contend that the industry, in many places, is bordering on incompetency...

Ahh, I think we're gettin' down to the crux of the matter.

Okay...

Do you think it would be sufficient to have OWITs do the final student evaluation? This would add an additional "check and balance" without involving the government.

In an earlier post I made the assertion that the industry safety record has been improving over the years. I don't have figures handy to back that up, but does anyone disagree? If it is improving, should we muck with the process?

g2

(Wheeee! Isn't this a fun discussion?)

 

[donacheson]

Originally posted by g2
In general, I believe governmental intervention in an industry they know nothing about can only make matters worse.

In your opinion, is the NOAA Diving Manual an example of "know nothing about"?

 

[VTWarrenG]

Do you think it would be sufficient to have OWITs do the final student evaluation? This would add an additional "check and balance" without involving the government.

That's exactly what I'd like to see. It's not very invasive, and would likely do a great deal of good. I don't really care if government is responsible for enforcing the practice or not, so long as it (or something like it) happens. Unfortunately, I think most shops would not do it, if given the choice. The economy of scale arguments already mentioned would make it an expensive practice in some places. Making it government-controlled might reduce the costs through tax funding.

In an earlier post I made the assertion that the industry safety record has been improving over the years. I don't have figures handy to back that up, but does anyone disagree? If it is improving, should we muck with the process?

Overall, I'd say it's improving, but the number of new divers wanting certification is outpacing that improvement. The unfortunate partnership between instructor and dive shop means instructors are often coerced into certifying more students, more quickly. Having an independent, impartial (i.e. not affiliated with the dive shop, salaried by the gov't) examiner would eliminate much of the economy vs. safety issue.

- Warren

 

[VTWarrenG]

Do we really want to make the sport exclusively for the well off as a means of increasing saftey?

Seatbelts make cars more expensive. Does this mean we should eliminate seatbelts so that less well-off people can drive?

If you can't afford good training and good equipment, you shouldn't be diving. A life is priceless.

- Warren

 

[g2]

Originally posted by donacheson


In your opinion, is the NOAA Diving Manual an example of "know nothing about"?

Point well taken. NOAA has my respect, and if it were left up to them I might agree with the idea of government regulation. Unfortunately politics and bueracracy gets involved, typically making a mess of things. NOAA does good diving, but they don't do legislation.

It seems like this is broken into two camps: those who trust the government to do it right, and those of us who don't.

g2

 

[The Chairman]

Accept the ineveitable... go with the flow. Position yourself to benefit from the coming regulations. Big Brother is watching as we type... oh yeah, one more thing. Try not to think about it and have a nice night!

 

[Rick L]

Who says what is good gear or bad gear?
Some states have laws saying you must keep things stock!
So if you translated that to scuba if someone came up with a better way to do things you might no be able to use it until the goverment approved it? Like some of the mixed gas diving some people are doing here. Will it now be against the law to test
it? It is not approved!! They might even say that the real deep
diving must be commercial divers only that are permited.
wow what if osha was added into this? At work when we have to go into a confined space(for scuba say a wreck or a cave) I must pull a permit the inspector must look at and decide what kind of confined space it is! If i dosn't have two exits or is not made for people to go into. You must be hooked into a harness with a device strong enough to pull the worker out if something goes wrong. A tender to watch your progress. Every bit of stored energy must be locked out and tagged. If there it a chance of
a cavein or entanglement it must be braced or secured.
Thats just what i can remember off the to of my head.
So you could kiss cave and wreck penatrations away!!
my 2 cents Rick L

 

[VTWarrenG]

Rick,

Since when has the Occupational Safety and Health Administration had anything to do with recreational activities?

- Warren

 

[SpyderTek]

AGAIN with the value judgements!

Who are YOU to say MY life is priceless?

As soon as the USA started making "For your own good" laws like Mandatory seatbelts, Illegal to skateboard in NJ (except in designated areas), etc all so I wont hurt others? No, so I wont hurt MYSELF. They are taking away my civil liberties and have entered into the realm of Fascist Government. Its harsh, and not a popular opinion to say, but none-the-less regulating my body and what I do with it at no one else's expense is a very invasive and limiting governmental policy.

In closing, let me beg you to take this respose with tounge in cheek and I am typing it with a smile on my face and am in no way trying to be advisarial. Just friendly arguement.

Spydertek