Government (GASP!) Regulation

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Originally posted by VTWarrenG
Wow... I agree Drew, I think the Maltese system accomplishes nothing, at great expense....

- Warren

Actually, there are pitfalls, but I think it does some good (other than merely employing instructors).

I have heard reports spouting statistics claiming that a significant percentage of diving accidents are in relatively new divers. Tragically, too many deaths occur when a surface problem is not properly managed and the diver fails to maintain positive buoyancy. Having a diving professional there to properly respond can make a huge difference.

In the Maltese system, a diver must demonstrate a certain level of training (and thus presumably minimal experience) above open water training before being turned loose to dive just with a buddy.

The biggest problem I saw was in the diving medical exams. My exam (cost about US$7) was so cursory as to be almost pointless. The doctor listened to my breathing and heartbeat, checked my blood pressure, and reviewed the medical questionairre before signing off. Not extensive, but I'm sure that some problems are detected, just not sure how many.
 
Originally posted by VTWarrenG
g2,

Do you think just having qualified check-out examiners and a standardized final exam will "reduce flexibility" without enhancing safety?

Modelling the dive industry after the very successful FAA system has been my pet solution for a long time. You can buy lots of different kinds of training materials (or none at all, if you prefer), and you can learn from lots of different kinds of people at very different airports -- i.e. you still have flexibility in the way you choose to learn. But when you're ready to get certified, you have to have some face-time with a qualified examiner. I'm interested to see what other people think of the pros and cons of that system.

- Warren

Your instructor should be the "qualified examiner". So if you're going to make regulations, they should be to insure that the instructor is properly qualified to examine the students, not create a whole new agency.

Using your FAA example, the flight instructor has to meet very rigid requirments before they can teach students. The FAA is huge, and enforces extreme regulations on everyone -- for good reason. Do you want this when you go diving?

Flying is extremely regulated because a mistake can kill lots of other people rather easily. In diving, you may hurt yourself -- at most, your buddy. Compare this with rock climbing, where there are no regulations at all.

g2
 
In the United States, we strive to limit government whenever and wherever we can. Government can screw up a free meal. At great expense.
Where there needs to be regulation is where your actions affect my safety or well being. Diving isn't one of those areas. There should no more be government regulation of Scuba diving than of rock climbing.
Every time you're tempted to look to government for a solution to what you consider serious problems in the diving world, just imagine diving with the DIR bubbas in charge. (If you're a DIR devotee, imagine it with me in charge). :)
Rick
 
There's no government in rockclimbing??? True, you don't have to show a C-card to buy climbing gear, but ask a climbing operation about their shop's insurance (that is after you get done with the waivers...) lawyers and lawsuits are based on law (theoreticly) and there is your government...
 
As I understand it, I do believe that the government should regulate breathing of all types. Thats right! A recent study has shown that EVERYONE who breathes will eventually die. It might take a few years, but I am telling you that this breathing stuff catches up with you quick.

It doesn't matter what you breathe either. Once you take your first breath, you can be certain that you will die. The catch 22 of this situation is that they have found that cessation of breathing to be equally as deadly! In fact you get deader quicker. So please, please lets all write our congressmen and get them to legislate that too!
 
I don't know what the answer is, but I think the Gov't tends to make matters worse rather than better. Even with all the incompetance we see on charter boats everyday, diving is still relatively safe. We have to accept that a certain percentage of divers will die and get injured. I don't like it, and I think the agencies could easily make the situation better, but that's where we stand for know.

:(

Mike
 
Originally posted by jetblast00
There's no government in rockclimbing??? True, you don't have to show a C-card to buy climbing gear, but ask a climbing operation about their shop's insurance (that is after you get done with the waivers...) lawyers and lawsuits are based on law (theoreticly) and there is your government...

Yup. My point exactly! Economic forces ensure that climbing shops attend to safety, without regulatory intervention.

In rock climbing you can see the danger: you fall, you die. Most people are sensible enough to get proper training before they try to free-climb El Capitan, and to make sure their climbing buddies are also trained before they trust their life to them.

The hazards in diving are not so obvious, but fortunately the industry can control who gets a tank fill -- via certifications and self-regulation.

LOL NetDoc! :)
 
g2,

Your instructor should be the "qualified examiner". So if you're going to make regulations, they should be to insure that the instructor is properly qualified to examine the students, not create a whole new agency.

This is unreasonable. You agree that there should be a distinction between 'instructors' and 'instructor trainers,' right? The people teaching flight lessons are instructors (CFI); the people doing checkrides are instructor trainers (CFII). It is unreasonable, uneconomical, and unnecessary to make every flight instructor a CFII. In an ideal diving world, yes, every instructor will be a living God of diving. In the real world, though, this will not happen, and a tiered system solves the problem with minimal fuss. If your dive instructor misses something, your dive examiner will catch it.

Using your FAA example, the flight instructor has to meet very rigid requirments before they can teach students. The FAA is huge, and enforces extreme regulations on everyone -- for good reason. Do you want this when you go diving?

Wrong. Becoming a CFI is not significantly more challenging than becoming an OW diving instructor. Becoming a CFII is much more challenging. The FAA regulations are not extreme, are not painful to anyone, and promote good aviation. Yes, I would LOVE to see such a system applied to diving. It would save many lives, with little negative consequence.

Flying is extremely regulated because a mistake can kill lots of other people rather easily. In diving, you may hurt yourself -- at most, your buddy.

Wrong again. Look at the statistics. General aviation airplanes are not a threat to anyone except those flying them. The Cessna aircraft I used to train weighed just over 2000 lbs, and had a maximum speed of 110 knots. You'd be hard-pressed to find any situation where a single-engine Cessna is a threat to "lots of other people." Flight instruction is in place to keep pilots, not bystanders, safe. If you're flying 747s, of course, the rules are quite different, but I'm comparing the private pilot certification process to the open-water certification process.

All I'd like to see is a system that requires new divers be examined by someone more qualified than the standard Joe Schmoe instructor before being let loose with a tank and reg. It doesn't have to be complicated, painful, or "extreme." One dive, a little test, and some conversation would suffice quite well as an examination. Everything else stays the same -- Joe Schmoe can still teach, he can still use his own materials, he can still instruct in his own personal style -- but now there's one final check that makes sure Joe Schmoe didn't do something wrong. I fail to see any drawbacks, other than a minimal (say $30-$60) cost increase to pay for the examiner's services. We all agree (I think) that diving classes are dirt cheap now anyway. It even does away with some of the liability gremlins, because when Mr. Gov't Examiner says you're good to dive, he's absolved Joe Schmoe of any liability concerning the quality of his instruction.

- Warren
 
This may seem like a dumb question, but which government do you want or don’t want to be involved? Scuba diving is international. The USA can not regulate what is going on in Aruba no more than England can regulate the USA.

It is the same problem, we are seeing when they try to regulate the Internet.
 
Darian,

That question is relevant, but outside the scope of discussion. I can go to many third-world countries, go on a killing spree, and probably not get caught or punished. That doesn't mean that killing sprees shouldn't be controlled in US, either.

Each country would therefore have to make its own efforts toward regulation of diving, as you point out.

- Warren
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/teric/

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