Getting my First Reg - Need Advice

[cerich]

@joe10540

Also, does anyone know what the servicing process is on the Deep6 DGX models? DIY is fine with me, but I would prefer not to have it be the only option.



Thank you.

You can send to Dive Gear Express to get serviced or to Deep 6. If you want and are interested you can even take the service class and learn to do it yourself. Plus, our DEMO centers will service it as well(also can teach you to), and many of our independent instructors that are affiliated with us can teach the service class, or service your regs.

 

[Bierstadt]

I'm a newbie and a warm water diver, so I'll leave the reco's for you to experienced, cold water folks .

However, there are some cautions/potential concerns on the braided hoses that you should be aware of if you go that route:

Alert Diver | Invisible Crystals

Thank you; I am aware of that issue but as I understand it that has been solved. Any new braided hose should not have that problem.

I put my advice onto my blog :

8 Factors To Consider When Purchasing Your Scuba Diving Regulator

Thank you; I certainly included those factors in my search, and in about that order, lol.

Something else to consider would be to shop the classifieds and find something used. That usually saves quite a bit of money off buying new.

Personally I only use rubber hoses, I've seen those cool nylon hoses twist right into a kink and not have any airflow. Plus rubber hoses are cheap enough if you shop around that you can afford to replace them more frequently than the nylon hoses if you start to see wear and tear.

You mentioned getting your regs serviced and wondering about finding a local shop. There are several options to mail off your regs and get them back good as new in a week or so. Plus the guys working on them usually only work on a specific brand or style so they are more familiar with it.

Buying a regulator is kinda like buying a car. You can buy new or used. You can buy cheap and functional or flashy and high performance. Somewhere out there you will find the reg you are looking for at the price you are hoping for. No matter why you buy how well you take care of it and maintain it is going to dictate how many problems you are likely to encounter. Not to say that the $1000 regulator won't fail in 6 months but the $100 reg won't last 6 months if you beat it up and don't take care of it either.

Good luck and let us know what you decide on!

Thank you; I am keeping an eye on the classifieds here. Unfortunately, the stuff that is available always seems to either be more than what I want to spend or a good deal but requiring service, meaning I end up saving no money over the Deep6 DGX deal. I don't understand why I would want to get a used Mk25 with a piston (and thus finicky to seal) over an easy-to-seal new diaphragm from Deep6, at the same price. What am I missing here?

Excellent point about sending the regs off for service. Makes sense to me.

My cars are solid Subaru's that I buy used and treat with love, care, and attention, which they reward by taking me anywhere I want to go without a fuss or costing too much. (Mostly) So that is a good analogy.

I am unsure why you say the rental regs don't fit a BP/W. My suggestion is to find out exactly why before purchasing something new that may not work. Pay attention to hose routing to see what type of first stage works best for you.

The synchro regs that Piranha is selling are made by SEAC. They are a Italian company that makes scuba gear. They do not have a large presence in the US, which is probably why you have not heard of them. They are a reputable company.

The DGX regs are made by Ocean Diver Supply in Taiwan. ODS also makes regulators for Hog and other companies. DGX will service the regulators for you but that may be inconvenient. Your LDS may or may not service them because they do not carry the brand.

I would check if your LDS has something like this. While not the best price, it is the best that I have seen recently. Apeks is owned by Aqualung, so any Aqualung dealer can service them.

Thank you; the fitting issue is mostly one of hose length. Cookie-cutter rental regs for cookie-cutter jacket BCD's are short where I need them long and long where I would much prefer them short. The inflator hose looks like an anaconda has slithered onto my left shoulder strap, and the giant console is exceeded in dangling annoyance only by the octo. However, "exactly why" is a critical point. You are absolutely correct in that, but I am confident I have those answers already. Hogarthian BP/W setups need correctly sized hose lengths.

SEAC good but not much established here... I'll have to think about that.

That is best price I have seen for Apeks. I had not thought them to be in my price range, but I know they are excellent regs, plus I can get service from my LDS. That would be good.

Consider all the + things said above. Plus consider ease of servicing especially when travelling.

Thank you; generally a good point to keep in mind. Especially for DIY.

It's been said above, but buying used in this hobby is really a great way to save money. There are few other hobbies out there where people get into them, spend a ton of money, and then decide it's not for them.

I bet 70-80% of mine and my wife's equipment is used. These items include a A700/MK25 regulator for 45% off retail (we paid about $500, including a service), used (but never wet, buyers wife didn't want it) Shearwater Perdix AI with transmitter (saved over $200), used BCD's (about 50% off, still a current model being sold)...

My point is don't discount USED items.

One caveat with regulators... they often need service. A service for a 1st stage, 2nd stage, and octo can run anywhere from $150-$250'ish. Once serviced however, they're as good as new. Take these numbers into account, if you're buying from an honest seller who will work with you a deal should be able to be struck where they ship the regs out for service to say AirTech (great service center, albeit kind of pricey) you pay for service and have AirTech mail them on to you. Lastly IMHO, once this initial service is done research some info on how often regs need serviced going forward (and buy an IP Gauge)... end of rant... enjoy shopping!

Thank you; service is a HUGE consideration for regs - and yes, an IP gauge will be going in my reg kit, no question.

I would love to buy used but the used prices for regs I have seen are little less than what Deep6 offers for new regs with excellent reviews - and used regs often mean mentally adding around $150 or more for service out of the gate. I have yet to see a deal that makes sense when weighed against the Deep6 option.

 

[Bierstadt]

I'm pretty sure the Deep6 DGX can also get sent back to Deep6 for service. @cerich can verify. They do not come with the first kits for free or the first service for free like their Signature series brothers, but that shouldn't be much of a concern

Thank you; it occurs to me that the Deep6 Signature costs $165 more than the Deep6 DGX but includes a free first service. DGX service is $165 for 3 stages; so considered over 2 years they cost the same, and cerich locks in the service price. Of course, what is the service price? That I shall have to ask.

The synchro is made by seac which is a not as well known italian brand. while perfectly usable, the second stages aren't that great, too much plastic. go with the deep6 or go used if you really need to stretch the dollar. since you are comfortable with diy, another route to go is buying the 804 first stage from piranha and finding some conshelf 14/scubapro 109 or 156 second stages.

Balance Diaphragm Yoke First Stage

Thank you; that was exactly what I wanted to know about SEAC: any good reason not to go that route. I really don't want to rebuy gear. Really really don't want to do that. My first thought was actually to save money by building the reg set out of parts like that piranha first stage, but unless I was able to find the second stages used for very little money it would not save much after I serviced them and bought the hoses and SPG. If I would end up with something better (more reliable) than the Deep6 option I would absolutely do it, but it seems like this would save (assuming no amazing deals on a used second from someone who didn't want it anymore or something like that, just sales online) about $40. Minus shipping. That is not worth it to me, given it ends up with a lesser reg set. Why build something you cannot be proud of in some way? (Look at my 10% savings! And don't ask me about the shipping! lol)

For around $400 you can sometimes get the "last year" version of scubapro mk25/s600 new. Every year Scubapro makes a minor change, and the previous year's model goes on sale for about $450. Scubapro isn't great on service, but it is a good product. You get the warranty on the previous year deals just as you would on current year. Since it's July you might not find these available unless you wait until 2018 and go find a 2017 model. Typically there's no difference year to year other than appearance.

Also, HOG has a good reputation.
Hog D1 DIN Env 1st w-Classic 2nd Stg Regulator Set $300 for a sealed first stage + second stage + braided hose.

The guy that probably had the most impact on HOG's good reputation is the guy who runs Deep6, which you are already looking at. Probably great regs as well but they're so new that I don't know anyone who's got one yet. I love my deep6 fins though!

Thank you; I prefer to rely on people rather than companies, which is why I am so high on Deep6. I have purchased hunting clothing from Kuiu, which is a very similar company to Deep6 in business model and who runs it. I have nothing but good things to say about them and their products.

I appreciate the Scubapro suggestions, but given the best prices for their regulators new or used are more (once I add the octo/SPG/hose/service-if-used) than the Deep6 option I don't understand why I would want to go that direction. The only thing I can think of from the advice I have been given is that Scubapro is established whereas Deep6 is new. I do not mean to downplay that at all. It is very important point to consider, and I am doing so. But am I correctly surmising that this is the main point in Scubapro's favor? It looks like Scubapro is the main alternative to Deep6 suggested, so I want to be very sure I am not dismissing it without full consideration.

I am going to speak to my LDS about Apeks and hopefully cerich about Deep6 and make up my mind tomorrow, so a deep thank you to everyone again. And any other posts I missed in the 3 hours I have been considering every post and writing this mega-reply...

 

[Bierstadt]

You can send to Dive Gear Express to get serviced or to Deep 6. If you want and are interested you can even take the service class and learn to do it yourself. Plus, our DEMO centers will service it as well(also can teach you to), and many of our independent instructors that are affiliated with us can teach the service class, or service your regs.

Thank you. Also, can you tell me what you currently charge for service? If you don't want to post that information (because I don't see it on your website) I will call tomorrow. Thank you.

 

[Bierstadt]

**A section of my response is apparently awaiting moderation for (probably) being suspected of spam, but rest assured I left no advice unread. ty

 

[ams511]

For a traveling diver usually Aqualung and Scubapro are the best because any major dive destination will have an AL and SP dealer. So if anything happens while at destination you can find someone to repair it. Also they tend to have higher resale value if you want to purchase something else. Mares, Cressi, Sherwood, Zeagle, and Oceanic all make a good product but they are usually around the same price as SP or AL so I see no benefit in purchasing them. Others will disagree with me on this. Atomics are great, have good resale value but don't have the dealer network and cost more to service because of the packing lube.

That being said Deep 6 does sell kits so if you have a first and second stage kit you can find someone to repair at destination if need be. I don't know much about Deep 6 but they seem to be rebranded ODS regs like Hog and Dive Rite and some others. They should breath fine. Also Dive Gear Express is good service wise.

The Apeks set I linked to was quite common a few years back. From what I remember they were selling for around $300 - $350. Apeks is owned by Aqualung and are made in the UK. They are usually cheaper in Europe. While most European dive stores will not ship to the US, I noticed quite a few eBay sellers willing to ship worldwide. That could be another option.

As I mentioned previously, Seac is reputable as is Piranha. I have purchased some items from them over the years and have always been satisfied with their service. They also have service kits for those regs. At the price they are being sold you can dive them for a couple of years and then fleabay them and buy something else. You can get a first and second stage for around $200. These regs have been in clearance for a while so they may even cut you a deal.

 

[DevonDiver]

Thank you; I am aware of that issue but as I understand it that has been solved. Any new braided hose should not have that problem.

The issue most certainly hasn't been solved.

Where did you hear that??

As it stands, DAN recommended putting a shelf/use life on braided hoses... and gave advice on how to better inspect these hoses for polymorphic crystallization deterioration to the inner hose layer.

No changes have been made by manufacturers. Apeks has swapped braided for rubber hoses on their sidemount sets.

The issue stems from the 3-layer design of braided hoses, which very effectively conceal degradation of the inner layer until it becomes catastrophic and blocks the hose, preventing gas supply at depth.

In contrast, the slightest failure on the inner layer of a rubber hose is immediately apparent to casual inspection... and the hose gets replaced long before it can degrade sufficiently to cause gas delivery restriction.

I've been closely involved with this issue from the start -
http://scubatechphilippines.com/scuba_blog/regulator-hose-diving-emergency

 

[cerich]

Thank you. Also, can you tell me what you currently charge for service? If you don't want to post that information (because I don't see it on your website) I will call tomorrow. Thank you.

LOL, that's because I haven't decided yet, everything is still under warranty

When you get from Deep6gear.com the service parts are included in service, for the DGX the parts kits won't be. The pricing will be reasonable I am sure.

 

[cerich]

The issue most certainly hasn't been solved.

Where did you hear that??

As it stands, DAN recommended putting a shelf/use life on braided hoses... and gave advice on how to better inspect these hoses for polymorphic crystallization deterioration to the inner hose layer.

No changes have been made by manufacturers. Apeks has swapped braided for rubber hoses on their sidemount sets.

Actually Andy, that is not quite true. When I saw your post, I was in Taiwan visiting ODS and I and ODS immediately started to investigate the issue. Heck I even took pictures of it and posted about it.

Couple things, the Miflex patent and miflex hose the inner hose is made of PU (US20070209728A1 - Low-pressure hose for connection to diving cylinders for underwater activities - Google Patents)

The hose bought by ODS and other asian suppliers from a Taiwan hose manuf does not use PU for the inner hose, and from our testing we saw the problem with PU inner hoses.

Regardless, all the braided hose that ODS sells now has date stamps on the crimp (ODS makes the crimps, the bulk hose they buy)

Now, let's go back to miflex. They now recommend that their hose be replaced every 3-5 years Miflex 2

I don't know if miflex is date stamping their hose presently or not. I do know from my observations that historically the ones I looked at were not date stamped.

 

[Bierstadt]

The issue most certainly hasn't been solved.

Where did you hear that??

As it stands, DAN recommended putting a shelf/use life on braided hoses... and gave advice on how to better inspect these hoses for polymorphic crystallization deterioration to the inner hose layer.

No changes have been made by manufacturers. Apeks has swapped braided for rubber hoses on their sidemount sets.

The issue stems from the 3-layer design of braided hoses, which very effectively conceal degradation of the inner layer until it becomes catastrophic and blocks the hose, preventing gas supply at depth.

In contrast, the slightest failure on the inner layer of a rubber hose is immediately apparent to casual inspection... and the hose gets replaced long before it can degrade sufficiently to cause gas delivery restriction.

I've been closely involved with this issue from the start -
http://scubatechphilippines.com/scuba_blog/regulator-hose-diving-emergency

I got that from watching AlecPeirceScuba, who does a series on YouTube. YMMV.