Getting my First Reg - Need Advice

[Bierstadt]

LOL, that's because I haven't decided yet, everything is still under warranty

When you get from Deep6gear.com the service parts are included in service, for the DGX the parts kits won't be. The pricing will be reasonable I am sure.

Ah. I also see I was slightly over-estimating service costs. A Deep6 DGX service would cost $165 from DGX, or $152 from House of Scuba, assuming retail pricing on parts kits. Deep6 Signature's lower parts cost (retail) would reduce that price by $14.50, to $137.50. Similar ballpark, but $27.50 is a nice savings for servicing. I understand in some areas it costs more, and others it costs less.

 

[Bierstadt]

For a traveling diver usually Aqualung and Scubapro are the best because any major dive destination will have an AL and SP dealer. So if anything happens while at destination you can find someone to repair it. Also they tend to have higher resale value if you want to purchase something else. Mares, Cressi, Sherwood, Zeagle, and Oceanic all make a good product but they are usually around the same price as SP or AL so I see no benefit in purchasing them. Others will disagree with me on this. Atomics are great, have good resale value but don't have the dealer network and cost more to service because of the packing lube.

That being said Deep 6 does sell kits so if you have a first and second stage kit you can find someone to repair at destination if need be. I don't know much about Deep 6 but they seem to be rebranded ODS regs like Hog and Dive Rite and some others. They should breath fine. Also Dive Gear Express is good service wise.

The Apeks set I linked to was quite common a few years back. From what I remember they were selling for around $300 - $350. Apeks is owned by Aqualung and are made in the UK. They are usually cheaper in Europe. While most European dive stores will not ship to the US, I noticed quite a few eBay sellers willing to ship worldwide. That could be another option.

As I mentioned previously, Seac is reputable as is Piranha. I have purchased some items from them over the years and have always been satisfied with their service. They also have service kits for those regs. At the price they are being sold you can dive them for a couple of years and then fleabay them and buy something else. You can get a first and second stage for around $200. These regs have been in clearance for a while so they may even cut you a deal.

Thank you; Apeks has a sterling reputation. However, in their limited time available so do the Deep6 regs, and Deep6 parts kits cost less than Apeks parts kits. Apeks does have a parts for life program, but that requires purchasing from a dealer and that is, from all I have seen, a very expensive way to get a regulator. The Apeks regs can be had via Ebay for a comparable amount to the Deep6 options, but it is still a bit more and again, the parts prices are also higher. I have looked into it, though.

I like SEAC and Piranha's pricing and the quality looks decent, but for a little more money I can get something I would not be wanting to replace in a few years. That is well worth it to me.

Finally, I have never traveled to dive and have no plans to, so the issue of global service presence is not a significant one for me. For others reading this though, it could be very important, of course.

 

[runsongas]

the conshelf 2nd stages are still pretty easy to find on ebay and craigslist for not much money. usually 20 to 40 dollars depending on condition. can also find the scubapro 109 or g250 sometimes too. rebuild kits on the duro poppets are cheap and if you go the awap route and punch your own seats, you can service them for nearly nothing. the balanced seats for the g250 and 109 BA cost a little bit more, but still not terrible. if you serviced the second stages yourself, you could do the set for roughly 200 (80 for piranha first, 80 for 2 conshelf or 109 2nds, up to 40 for the 2nd stage kits) + whatever tools you don't currently have that are needed. that approach is if you were doing the servicing yourself. if you were not comfortable with that and intended to pay for a service, getting the 2 2nd stages serviced would run about 60 more assuming 30 per stage. not sure if that really is an attractive option to you, but the option is there.

 

[Bierstadt]

the conshelf 2nd stages are still pretty easy to find on ebay and craigslist for not much money. usually 20 to 40 dollars depending on condition. can also find the scubapro 109 or g250 sometimes too. rebuild kits on the duro poppets are cheap and if you go the awap route and punch your own seats, you can service them for nearly nothing. the balanced seats for the g250 and 109 BA cost a little bit more, but still not terrible. if you serviced the second stages yourself, you could do the set for roughly 200 (80 for piranha first, 80 for 2 conshelf or 109 2nds, up to 40 for the 2nd stage kits) + whatever tools you don't currently have that are needed. that approach is if you were doing the servicing yourself. if you were not comfortable with that and intended to pay for a service, getting the 2 2nd stages serviced would run about 60 more assuming 30 per stage. not sure if that really is an attractive option to you, but the option is there.

Thank you; decent option.

 

[Bierstadt]

Conclusion to my Search:

Thank you all for your advice. I was able to dive (pun unintended) much deeper into the costs of regulator ownership through pursuing the suggestions and advice posted. I examined Apeks options via Ebay and Amazon.com, used Scubapro Mk25's, and DIY reg assembly options via Piranha and Ebay. All these were weighed against my initial top option of buying a Deep6 DGX reg set from Give Gear Express for $400.

Apeks cost more and maintenance cost was higher without a clear advantage in reliability or performance.

Ditto with Scubapro. Even used cost more after considering service costs and Octo/SPG/hose expense.

DIY with Piranha as a base would have saved money, but resulted in something I would probably have wanted to replace in a few years, yielding a net loss of money compared to spending $100 or less more to get what I want for the long term.

Finally, the initial option of the Deep6 DGX was weighed against the Deep6 Signature regulator package. The Deep6 DGX has the advantage of: DIN-to-Yoke Adaptor, Braided Hoses, and costing $165 less. The Deep6 Signature has the advantages of: slightly better performance (untested but reasonable to assume), a hard carry case, cheaper service kits, a set of included service kits, and an included first service. I spoke with Chris from Deep6 on the phone and he told me he could send fittings to change the fitting from yoke to DIN for an additional but reasonable fee.

I considered the cost of the regulator set over the first two years of ownership and assessed the cost of the Deep6 DGX as $552 to $565 over two years. The Deep6 Signature was assessed as approximately $595 over two years. Other options were equally or more expensive, or yielded a lesser regulator set.

Ultimately I was swayed by the combination of Deep6's reviewed performance (vs no detailed reviews for the DGX version) and the Deep6 commitment to lock future service rates in at the time of purchase.

So that is my conclusion, and that is what I purchased. I spent more than I wanted to, but I feel I found good value for my specific situation. If there is one takeaway I would suggest from this, it is to consider all costs, not just those up front.

See you in the water.

 

[ams511]

Congratulations on your decision. After you dive them you can give us a review.

 

[DevonDiver]

I got that from watching AlecPeirceScuba, who does a series on YouTube. YMMV.

Ah, well... it's on the internet... so...

The date of that video log (Sept 2016) wasn't long after to the issue of polymorphic crystallization being identified with nylon braided hoses. It doesn't mention that issue.

I published the first report on the issue (July 2015) and was communicating with both DAN and manufacturers thereafter.

The video linked was made just after DAN's preliminary report (DAN SA - July 2016) announcing their investigation on the issue. Long before any study findings were announced or manufacturers took serious interest in the issue.

None of this is particularly important. If you like nylon braided hoses, just know that issues exist and that regular inspection and frequent replacement are necessary.

The current recommendations on appropriate lifespan (2 years) are quite prudent... the issue being that manufacturers need to inform of production date for the hoses they sell.

In short, these hoses don't have a longer lifespan than rubber... but may appear to do so by concealing deterioration cosmetically.

For what it's worth, most of the elite level divers I know, or have communicated with, wouldn't use nylon braided hoses. But that's for elite level diving.. where consequence of failure is much less forgiving. A recreational diver may not have such dramatic considerations.

 

[buddhasummer]

I wonder if at some point the companies that sell their regs with braided hoses will decide their replacement is part of the two year service, that could get expensive boys and girls. On DGX website they recommend a 500 dive or 5 year replacement, which ever comes first, on both rubber and braided hoses.

 

[Bierstadt]

I wonder if at some point the companies that sell their regs with braided hoses will decide their replacement is part of the two year service, that could get expensive boys and girls. On DGX website they recommend a 500 dive or 5 year replacement, which ever comes first, on both rubber and braided hoses.

Not at all - because if that were to become the case, no one would use braided hoses.

 

[Bierstadt]

Ah, well... it's on the internet... so...

The date of that video log (Sept 2016) wasn't long after to the issue of polymorphic crystallization being identified with nylon braided hoses. It doesn't mention that issue.

I published the first report on the issue (July 2015) and was communicating with both DAN and manufacturers thereafter.

The video linked was made just after DAN's preliminary report (DAN SA - July 2016) announcing their investigation on the issue. Long before any study findings were announced or manufacturers took serious interest in the issue.

None of this is particularly important. If you like nylon braided hoses, just know that issues exist and that regular inspection and frequent replacement are necessary.

The current recommendations on appropriate lifespan (2 years) are quite prudent... the issue being that manufacturers need to inform of production date for the hoses they sell.

In short, these hoses don't have a longer lifespan than rubber... but may appear to do so by concealing deterioration cosmetically.

For what it's worth, most of the elite level divers I know, or have communicated with, wouldn't use nylon braided hoses. But that's for elite level diving.. where consequence of failure is much less forgiving. A recreational diver may not have such dramatic considerations.

Controversy over hoses - who would have imagined? However, the type of failure specified in the DAN article dealt specifically with thermoplastic inner hose. It also mentioned that testing for failure in hoses is best done (nondestructively) by performing a pinch test along the hose (though I note you said you were unable to feel any problems when handling a degraded hose). If a manufacturer were use a thermoplastic inner hose with a rubber outer layer the same issue could arise and would be harder to detect prior to complete failure (again, based on the DAN article) than if it happened with a braided outer hose.

I think there are two important takeaways here: first, be wary of thermoplastic inner hoses, especially in warm climates. It may well be that some or all of the thermoplastic materials used in inner hoses are simply not safe for diving. This is not a braided vs rubber hose issue, but rather a thermoplastic inner hose vs rubber inner issue. You are absolutely right to stress this issue, though. I would not buy a hose with a thermoplastic inner hose. Second, divers need to know about their gear - including the details of their hoses. Does that sound about right?

Thank you for checking out my cited info and following up.