General Vortex Incident Discussion

[SuPrBuGmAn]

I'm not talking about not using the rule of thirds, which Sheck kindly invented for the rest of us, or using a Chlorox jug as a BC. He became a cave diving legend (and rightly so) because of what he did after he survived some really boneheaded moves in his early career

Sheck implemented a whole lot more than 1/3rds and BCs, to cave diving as we know it today. You must not have spent much time with the book, it deserves more than just a quick skim over.

Fact remains, he did some damn stupid things and nearly (probably should have) died as a result several times. I'm not talking about the "hey this might work" trial and error stuff, I'm talking about very nearly killing himself and avoiding it only by pure luck, as evidenced by other people dying on the very same dives

Just because he did a lot of great stuff afterwards doesn't make his early exploits any less foolish

The earlier exploits helped bring us to where we are today. Alot of the stuff he did then, would be considered stupid now, thats a fact. Back then, they didn't know any better, they were the ones writing the books on what to, and what not-to do. If you want to bring up an example where thats not the case, feel free to Lots of people died in the earlier days of cave diving, and we learned from that.

Thats the difference between pioneers then, and idiots today. We've already learned those earlier mistakes(thanks to the pioneers) and anyone taking the classes are addressed to scenarios and procedures to handle them. An idiot isn't going take advantage of the classes and gear available(which the pioneers didn't have), and chance his own life. There's no simularities in what the pioneers did out of necessity, and what untrained idiots do out of laziness? Cheapness? Ignorance? Arrogance?

 

[SuPrBuGmAn]

Can I please please use this as my tag line? Of course you will get the credit!

Sure 'nough

 

[Divedoggie]

Sure 'nough

Cool! I fixed it, too. How does this look?

 

[Kevin Carlisle]

just wow
I watched several of deepswims video's and believe he is actually serious
It's as if he has a gravitational field that attracts more people just like him

I'm not sure if i'm more impressed with the monofin snorkel, swimming through classes or "tricks" underwater...not to mention the whole cave diving component.

seriously though, you really should not swim full speed towards the surface after diving, might want to consider some more dive training and should stay completely out of caverns and caves until trained and equipped.

I was there doing a cave dive with Rick Murchison last year. As we made our way into the basin to make a lap or two to scrub off some deco this Same guy zipped over and in front of us cutting us off playing with one of his toys. As the area we were in was only wide enough for single file swimming I was in the lead. When he cut us off the turbulence he put out flooded my mask, almost knocked it off and threw up silt everywhere. I have no respect for this man, and I never will.

 

[Tortuga68]

You must not have spent much time with the book, it deserves more than just a quick skim over

I'm sorry you don't agree with my opinion. There's really no need for you to sledge my reading habits though; I own the book, I read the whole book

If you want to bring up an example where thats not the case, feel free to

Like I said, I don't have the book to hand. I'm surprised that you can't remember the parts where he should have died, there were a few. I mentioned the 'dead man' dive platform depth record already, that killed two people as I recall

 

[SuPrBuGmAn]

I'm sorry you don't agree with my opinion. There's really no need for you to sledge my reading habits though; I own the book, I read the whole book

Alteast you've come to terms with your opinion instead of touting them as fact.

Like I said, I don't have the book to hand. I'm surprised that you can't remember the parts where he should have died, there were a few. I mentioned the 'dead man' dive platform depth record already, that killed two people as I recall

Did the cave community learn less because he almost died? No, infact, we learned more from all his incidents - which is the point. The pioneers have made these sacrifices, no need for anyone else to have to fledge out the basics uneducated anymore.

The dive platform depth record? In the ocean? When Sheck was a safety diver? Which has nothing to do about cave diving? The instance that probably had a huge impact on looking at alternative gasses at depth to negate narcosis? The one that gave readers plenty to think about when considering(the poor choice) diving deep with air?

Sure, there's nothing to learn there Maybe you can read, but your comprehension is lacking tremendously

 

[LiteHedded]

Alteast you've come to terms with your opinion instead of touting them as fact.



Did the cave community learn less because he almost died? No, infact, we learned more from all his incidents - which is the point. The pioneers have made these sacrifices, no need for anyone else to have to fledge out the basics uneducated anymore.

The dive platform depth record? In the ocean? When Sheck was a safety diver? Which has nothing to do about cave diving? The instance that probably had a huge impact on looking at alternative gasses at depth to negate narcosis? The one that gave readers plenty to think about when considering(the poor choice) diving deep with air?

Sure, there's nothing to learn there Maybe you can read, but your comprehension is lacking tremendously

well now that we've come this far...
can it be a deep air thread now??

 

[SuPrBuGmAn]

Its been a deep air thread since this yahoo went missing, possibly in a 160' deep cave.

 

[Tortuga68]

It's still an interesting point... Anyone who has read Sheck Exley's Caverns Measureless To Man, would know that he was very lucky not to have died several times during his early diving career; if he had died earlier than he did, he would most likely have been written off on SB as a reckless idiot rather than a cave diving legend

Alteast you've come to terms with your opinion instead of touting them as fact.

What did I tout as fact that was untrue?

Did the cave community learn less because he almost died? No, infact, we learned more from all his incidents - which is the point

When did I say the cave community learned less?

The dive platform depth record? In the ocean? When Sheck was a safety diver? Which has nothing to do about cave diving? The instance that probably had a huge impact on looking at alternative gasses at depth to negate narcosis? The one that gave readers plenty to think about when considering(the poor choice) diving deep with air?

Yes, that one. What's your point? Did I say it was a cave dive?

Sure, there's nothing to learn there Maybe you can read, but your comprehension is lacking tremendously

Maybe you should work on your own comprehension. Did I say there was nothing to learn?

I don't know what your problem is, get a grip. Sheck did some very stupid things in his early career

 

[lurk-n-learn]

If you two don't stop your trying to prove who has the bigger package this thread is going to get closed or moved. Stop locking horns already and let things roll please.