General Vortex Incident Discussion

[vshearer]

It has been mentioned that the lessons to be learned in this incident are nothing new, and I agree, but I think it is very important that these lessons are advertised repeatedly to OW divers, even technical divers, if they might be tempted to enter a cave in the future. This accident has probably done more than any other I have seen in the last 2 or 3 years to drive home the importance of training, and for that it is invaluable. I have seen a couple of instructors on here mention that they will be re-emphasizing this in their classes in the future.

I have been an off and on diver for many years, but had not been diving for about 15 years when I started again. I found out quickly that although I still had the knowledge I did not have the skill I did in the past. I had never even considered cave diving before, and reading the experiences of others here got my interest. It also made me quite aware of what I needed to learn. So as some of you know I signed up for a cavern class awhile back and decided to kill two birds with one stone and learn to handle a dry-suit at the same time. My instructor dumped me on the first dive after my third circuit due to my bouyancy issues, and told me to come back when I had it under control. Taking the course and just doing the line drills drove home what I knew intuitively, that inside a cave is no place to learn the basics... and even wet my bouyancy needs work...

My point is that if anyone else is reading this who has a budding interest in caves then take it to heart that the training is crucial, and when taking your training leave your ego at home.

 

[Kevin Carlisle]

What happens if there's a power failure?

I'd like to bet that not everyone back there has decent lights.

Good point. I have personally seen 3 to 4 divers there with one light between them and I am carrying 4 just for me.

 

[Hetland]

Too bad that the equipment can't be recovered. That would be telling and usefull learning. If the tanks were empty could you still tell what was in them? Maybe ignorant question but I believe no question is stupid unless you dont ask it because then you never learn....

If his valves were turned off at depth, and then brought up, it's possible enough gas would remain for analysis. Same with any gas remaining in his bc.

They will of course be able to determine what was in his stage bottles and deco bottles that were already recovered.

I'm thinking it won't be a significant issue. He could have had a mix that had too high of an oxygen concentration, which would likely have cause a seizure (he would have been easier to find I'm thinking). But most likely he was diving air or a lean nitrox mix, which, either way, would have resulted in significant narcosis (imho).

If his computer still has juice, or it's data is stored in a type of memory that survives a power loss, then that could tell investigators what his dive profile was (how long he spent at each depth).

 

[wjefferis]

If his valves were turned off at depth, and then brought up, it's possible enough gas would remain for analysis. Same with any gas remaining in his bc.

Typically the equipment the victim was using is not touched so that investigators can determine exactly if equipment malfunction was the cause of death. A few years ago my mother-in-law gave me an on-line course for underwater investigation to use for work. It has pictures of scuba related deaths and what happens to the body underwater. Anytime I look at the material it is a shocking reminder of what can occur to me if I decide to make bad decisions.

 

[wjefferis]

that video does not show cave divers. it shows yay-hoos diving in a cave - period.

quick, someone post a video clip of cave divers, and let's see the difference.

Here is a video of cave divers, compare and see the difference: The Crystal Caves of Abaco - Cave Diving Worldwide on Vimeo

[vimeo]10402471[/vimeo]

 

[pattidives]

You should not be back in there unless you are trained. If you are trained then you know to carry lights. Most cave systems to my knowledge do not have lights. This one, the former owner put them in and then shut them off when he sold the property. He recently had them turned back on not even a month or just at a month. Unfortunately, when untrained divers heard about it some thought that it was okay to go back there. This is why training is crucial. If there was a power outage a trained cave diver would be fine. However, those without might not think to carry a light so they would be in trouble. If they had any sense they would, but if they had any sense an untrained diver wouldn't be back in the cave in the first place.

 

[Crush]

Since Cave Diver has split off this thread for off-topic posts on the Vortex Incident, I'd like to muse aloud that there appear to be two very different opinions of Ben's level of skill. His friends, the majority of which are not divers and (apparently) none of which are certified cave divers thought that Ben's skill level was excellent. Most divers on SB seem to think that Ben's skill levels were inadequate for an overhead environment based upon his lack of formal training and the skill level demonstrated by the white-helmeted diver in the video. The two different groups are butting heads in part because of these two different views.

 

[alohagal]

Still missed my point.,,,
I agree that fins off and walking on the ceiling etc etc is NOT ACCEPTABLE!!
You and I and alot of others are incredulous that someone would do that.
My point is that it IS NOT THE VICTIM OF THE VORTEX ACCIDENT IN THE VIDEO DOING THAT.
Clarify who the "he" "him" or "they" are before you post please.
Not just you by the way...there are MANY others that have done the exact same thing

And as far as the other posters request for posting a link to the victims Facebook....WHY??? FB is for Friends and family to share. Why would anyone want to or allow anyone to dissect this poor guys FB page? You may find other things on there deemed not quite right, dangerous, stupid or whatever you or all would want to. There are probably things on there that could be used to teach others but that is going too far into the victims personal space.
Bottom line to this entire very sad incident is that no person should ever dive alone EVER, or dive beyond your skills and level of training.

I agree with you...and really meant to mention the same thing myself. Many of the posts referred to him, he, they as if one and the same. We know they are not. We now learn he was not keeping company with the other "fin removing" person.
According to his FB entry and verification from another poster here.

He is not guilty by association of what the other folks in video are doing, and should not be lumped in with them as a group of bonehead, yahoo, fools as has been implied.

So, the critique of Ben should be completely separate from the others in video, and the critique of the "others" should not be a critique on Ben.

Thanks to posters here for clarifying who videotaped, who was there and that Ben was not diving with the others in video. I think that distinction is important and should not be readily dismissed.

 

[alohagal]

How many certified cave divers dive alone? Raise your hand. Yes...I see you in the back with your hand up. Yes, I see you...and you...and you. Thank you.
Happens all the time.

Now take a self taught, non-certified cave diver, newly acclimating to this cave, doing deeper penetrations, new to sidemount, diving solo and it is a recipe for a disaster.

 

[J Easy]

I was just searching the net for anymore details on the search and came across this comment:

"Sources say that McDaniel was nowhere near cave diving status. Also, McDaniel was in alot of debt. It's a good possiblity that this is a hoax in an attempt to collect on some insurance benifits. Having authorities distracted by searching the cave.. Sounds like a diversion to me... "

Source: Vortex Springs: Still No Sign of Missing Cave-Diver

Has anyone heard if the search will continue or not?