General Vortex Incident Discussion

[lurk-n-learn]

The sad truth, which has been stated on here several times, is that you cant fix stupid. No matter how many rules, regulations and barriers you put in someones way, if they want to circumvent these and hurt themselves, they are going to do it. The only thing we as a diving community (OW to technical diving) can do is educate each other and offer info, which is what the majority of people on these threads have been attempting to do. I personally have gained loads of respect for the cave divers on here from there input into this tragic incident. So I ask the ones who have been posting to stop talking about this person, or stop saying that about this person, what good are you accomplishing?? Trying to stop the flow of information is not going to bring back the dead, but it may hamper a diver who is still on the fence about whether they would try risky behaviors underwater from being persuaded. So please think before you jump in and try to derail an affective thread like this.

Amen.
Keep it accurate though and not personal.
Everyone stay safe but most important stay smart!

 

[Hetland]

If someone wants to really make a mark on history then I suggest that legislation be passed that regulates the availability of being able to fill the tanks with gas of any kind without showing the PROPER training and certification to handle what they are about to do.

His open water certification granted him access to air fills through any scuba shop in the world.

He would have been taught, as part of that certification, to stay out of all overhead environments. No exceptions.

This is a photo of the actual sign he swam past every time he entered the cave at Vortex.

 

[boulderjohn]

If someone wants to really make a mark on history then I suggest that legislation be passed that regulates the availability of being able to fill the tanks with gas of any kind without showing the PROPER training and certification to handle what they are about to do.

Legislation of this kind would probably not be as effective as putting a gate and padlock on a cave entrance to keep divers out "without showing the PROPER training and certification to handle what they are about to do."

 

[pattidives]

I have noticed a few comments about the video so I will clear a few things up. I know the person who shot the video and have spoken to him. Where they are at in the cave is called the "piano room" the lights were recently turned back on. The guy shooting the video is obviously not a cave diver nor the other. The guy in sidemount is the victim, also not cave certified. Since the lights have been turned back on more untrained divers have been going back there. I have also been invited to take part in the festivities but of course declined. The victim happened to be diving in the cave past the gate that evening and on his way back saw the other two and took part in the "party" in the piano room. (which is what they have been calling it) They were not all diving together. They just happened to stumble into one another. It is definitely scary to watch how everyone in the video lacks the training needed to be back there. Oh and to clarify things even more, it was mentioned in his FB post that the person shooting was an employee at Dive Locker, which is not true, he is a customer.

More regulations are not the answer. Any shop that I know of, you have to show the proper certification to get special blends, that does not mean that it is impossible to obtain it without one. We have to remember that this is the same person that got through a gate with a lock. If a person is determined there is no amount of regulation you can enforce to keep them from doing what they want. Regulation is already there.

 

[lurk-n-learn]

His open water certification granted him access to air fills through any scuba shop in the world.

He would have been taught, as part of that certification, to stay out of all overhead environments. No exceptions.

This is a photo of the actual sign he swam past every time he entered the cave at Vortex.

All true.
Glad to see that pic as it in itself is sobering. I myself would never be able to see it as I would never go far enough to have been able to see it and I have respect for those that have the skills and training to safely go beyond it.
Too bad that the equipment can't be recovered. That would be telling and usefull learning. If the tanks were empty could you still tell what was in them? Maybe ignorant question but I believe no question is stupid unless you dont ask it because then you never learn....
I am going back to lurking and learning now. Like I said everyone stay safe!

 

[pattidives]

Also, there is a difference between being adventurous and foolish. Never go beyond your training. There is a reason why they created training and special equipment for cave diving, respect it.

 

[Jax]

Also, there is a difference between being adventurous and foolish.

Great line! Fits every higher-risk sport I know of.

We have an area in the mountains which is awesome for hang-gliding when the winds are right. However, they change and the gliders get caught in a down draft and slam into the ground from a hundred or more feet up.

People see the experienced gliders, and think they can do it.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

That video was hard to watch. I kept thinking about that young man's family and how they looked up to him and believed that he was doing something wonderful and adventuresome. I'm sure it never occurred to any of them to question whether he belonged back in there ... based on the comments I've seen from them, it sounds like Ben had his family and friends pretty convinced he was qualified to do what he was doing. It has to be even more hard on them now ... coming to realize through the comments and evidence that he was not.

Getting the equipment to do such a dive is easy ... learning how to use it isn't even all that difficult ... but not learning an appreciation for what can go wrong, and what to do if it does, is what gets people in trouble inside a cave. It's the attitude ... a cave is no place for "Hey y'all, watch this" moments like those in the video.

Watching the video, I felt bad ... for Ben, for his family, and for the delusions we humans so often put upon ourselves when we want something so badly, but don't put the effort into achieving our goals the right way.

There are plenty of shortcuts to the inside of a cave ... none of them are worth the price you might have to pay to take them. I wish someone had been able to get that message through to Ben before it was too late ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[ianr33]

Where they are at in the cave is called the "piano room" the lights were recently turned back on. .... Since the lights have been turned back on more untrained divers have been going back there.

What happens if there's a power failure?

I'd like to bet that not everyone back there has decent lights.

 

[ScubaGypsy]

I did a solo cave dive at Vortex on 28 July 2010. The management was new and the store and grounds appeared to have been cleaned up from my last visit in January 2009. There was alot of activity in the water park area but only a few OW divers in the basin and I was the only cave diver. They did require my NSS-CDS Full Cave card to check out the key. The underwater lights, cameras and breathing station were not operational during my visit. I only penetrated 500' past the gate with a max depth of 117' for a 52 min dive including an 11 min deco obligation (using EAN-30 backgas). I don't recall that the hinge side of the gate (left side for entry) was a padlock as the only padlock that I do remember is the one that was attached to the chain on the right side.