General Vortex Incident Discussion

[boulderjohn]

But, he's essentially running with scissors through the 1st grade playground.
...

When I first learned to ski (as an adult), I could not afford real lessons. My wife taught me enough to get started, and I then looked around at other skiers to see how to do it. I looked at the ones who looked the coolest to me, and I tried to imitate them.

When I finally figured out how wrong I was in my choice of role models, when I finally could afford real lessons, I had so many bad habits that I never truly lost them all.

He may not realize that he is giving cave diving lessons to the masses, but he is.

 

[Kevin Carlisle]

@ Rick. Its not his abilities that bother me. Its his reckless self promotion and encouragement for other newerdivers to join him. Nik is a nice guy, but his actions are unacceptable. He was looking for acceptance from die hard cavers and that's just not gonna happen. In my eyes he can do what he wants, just don't recruit others to join his foolishness.

 

[Docc]

I might enjoy dancing around on the Vortex dock in my speedo, but that doesn't make it a good idea.

You better be real, real careful doing that around Denise and Carolyn during Vortoberfest. Don't say I didn't warn you.

 

[Tom Smedley]

What you are doing collectively is cyper bullying or in this instance dog piling with the purpose of discrediting an individual. This is a blatant violation of the terms of service.

Whether I know him or not is immaterial. I know you and I would do the same if the remarks were directed toward you. When it comes to making fun of someone's personal appearance you have gone too far.

If you don't like a member then put them on your ignore list. Or better yet - meet with him, talk to him, and tell him to his face what your feelings are.

I understand he's from a different country and maybe how he cave dives is accepted there, but going in with other OW divers and filming them walking on the ceiling is unsafe and downright spitting in the face of cave conservancy.

I understand he's your buddy, but he has no place in current day cave diving in the US. Bringing other people with him is just asking for more problems like the one in Vortex's wake at this very moment.

 

[SuPrBuGmAn]

I've actually spoken to him, he admits, in this country, he's not allowed in the caves... he just doesn't really seem to think Vortex up to the grate is a cave.

The fact that he says, "in this country", leads me to believe he'd be pushing further with inadequate gear and antiquated(if any) training in another country.

This deserves discrediting. If discrediting someone who is being irresponsible is against TOS, have me banned.

 

[ucfdiver]

If discrediting someone who is being irresponsible is against TOS, have me banned.

Totally agree.

 

[nakatomi]

What you are doing collectively is cyper bullying or in this instance dog piling with the purpose of discrediting an individual. This is a blatant violation of the terms of service.

The only "violation" is what you can see with your own eyes in the videos. People without proper training and/or equipment fooling around (literally) in places where they should not be in the first place.
It´s not only in the Vortex videos, there are so many examples on his youtube channel.

From looking at the videos, both Nik and the people he dives with, seem to have a really poor attitude. I see bending/ignoring of rules, diving outside limits. It´s just not right.

 

[Tom Smedley]

Like I said - put him on your ignore list - no amount of bantering or ranting or slandering on this thread is going to change him. Most folks pass him off as eccentric anyway.

 

[shoredivr]

The thing that started this whole thread was a non-cave trained diver going into a cave and not being seen since. His disappearance resulted in very well trained and experienced cave divers risking themselves to find his body on numerous dives.

Nik is promoting unsafe cave diving practices. I don't think that pointing that out is wrong. If more people think what he's doing and posting are cool, I guess we will have other folks like Ben Mcdaniels to be searched for. *sigh*

On the bright side, at least this thread illustrates that to cave dive you need training.

 

[Kevin Carlisle]

Tommy this is a cave forum. If he doesn't like the criticism then he should stay out of it or admit his errors and stop. I have no problem with him doing what he does, as long as he doesn't take others with him. When he gets one of these newer divers killed then he is nothing more than a drunk driver who kills someone. And I have personally heard him talk people into joining him. That's wrong, should be bashed and according to a lot of people on this thread its changed how they see it. So it seems to be the lessor of the two evils.