General Vortex Incident Discussion

[Jax]

:spit:

 

[Kevin Carlisle]

I was too ashamed......

sure you just didn't know better at that time.

 

[irishsquid]

sure you just didn't know better at that time.

The split fins balance out the SM and keep him from entering in resticted overheads.

 

[ScubaSteve]

I was too ashamed that they are all pink......

This explains why Jax wants it all.

 

[techintime]

Get off of the internet, stop dredging up ancient history, and when you *really* *do* come across a GUE-certified diver telling OW divers with snorkels that they are 'strokes', please feel to convey "the DIR community's" feelings that he should put a sock in it. I will definitely back you up on it, and I'm pretty sure that JJ, Panos and the rest of the GUE instructor cadre will have your back too.

What else do you want "the DIR community" to do?

Alright folks. 20 dives or 2000, we all base our opinions on our experience...and from mine, there are still some zealots out there giving DIR a bad name...which is a real shame. But if I have overstated the magnitude of the issue, then please accept my apology.

Lamont, You want me to "Get off the internet" over a silly difference of opinion??? Come on, really??? Has it been that long? Just buy her some roses. PS: Sorry, but you left yoursef open to that one and I couldn't resist. LOL. i'd really rather dive with you than debate with you. Maybe we will get the chance sometime. I'm done with this. Time to move on. SB, I'm sorry for hijacking the thread.

 

[Texas Torpedo]

The split fins balance out the SM and keep him from entering in resticted overheads.

And especially backing out of them..

 

[Dive-aholic]

OMG, you scooter puppies are ruining my imagination of the big, tough cave men!!!

Only big tough cave men can drive a scooter 250+ fpm through a cave that has varying depths and passage size...

However, that leads to another question -- in what kind of environment would sidemount not be a good choice for a twin cylinder dive?

I don't know that I would call it "not a good choice" rather than not necessary. Shallow OW dives don't require the redundancy or air, so unless it's a practice session it's overkill. Easier to Monkey Dive. You'll see me at 2:03. The cylinder isn't positioned that great. That was my first time doing that. I've since fixed it so the tank is more streamlined. Max depth 25 ffw, wearing a 8/6 semidry.

Hey, scooters are manly! Ever see someone carry a 26 down to the water at Little River?

The Magnus is about 40 lbs lighter...and much faster...

The only time I wouldn't consider SM as easy is on a boat in pitching seas. I need to get in a class with Rob and increase my learning curve.

While gearing up on a boat in pitching seas might be a little more difficult if trying to gear up on the boat or on the surface, there are better ways...like underwater... And it's a lot safer than trying to get off a boat with 100+ lbs of steel on your back...

I am jonesing for a Magnus.

I will hopefully be buying my 2nd one next year...

So the search teams found three tanks? Do we know how many tanks the guy owned? Obviously if he only owned three (or four) tanks, and didn't rent additional tanks, it's hard to believe he's in there somewhere.

I'm pretty sure he owned more tanks. I think they were all aluminum, but I've heard rumors that he was diving steels.

I dive SM in OW and dive deep on air. I also dove SM once with split fins. I'm gonna die.

I'm surprised you didn't die on that split fin dive already!!!

 

[ucfdiver]

Go back and read my post. Or, actually, here's what I want you to reread -

They want to dive sidemount because they see more advantages to that configuration than disadvantages. They like having the valves and 1st stages where they can see them. They like having completely redundant air sources. They like the stability of the weight along the center of the body rather than high up on the body. Some of them just like not carrying 100+ pounds of steel on their backs! Sidemount diving is not about going into small spaces.

I agree that there are some reasons to dive it in OW. Do you think that your students are following the rules after the SM course, or do you think some have used the new tools to go where they shouldn't? How do you evaluate the mentality before signing off on the card? I think it would be very tough.

 

[SuPrBuGmAn]

Like it or not, DIR holds EOL at the biggest cave in FL. Sure, Wakulla is closed access, but much of the Leon sinks isn't, and no one is pushing any leads. Why? It's crappy viz, large cave, old line, deep, etc. We're not talking about a 30ft reef dive looking at fishies.

WKPP has done some amazing dives, but they've also been working on that EOL for several decades without anyone else having as extensive access. Leon Sinks is open, but its hard to have the EOL, in the middle of the cave?

Today's fatalities usually involve deep air, solo, sm, rebreathers, skipping training, or some combo thereof. You'll find people who don't believe any of those things killed people, though. It usually gets blamed on a "medical".

Who ever died due to diving SM?

 

[PfcAJ]

I think another group got access to Wakulla for 90 consecutive days and didn't go very far and had a few accidents and a fatality. Also, if you're looking for a long range cave to explore, try Cathedral. Its wide open, and not all that deep.

Matt, I didn't say SM kills, I said it is often involved. Just like solo doesn't kill outright, its just involved. I'm merely correlating, here. Deep air, otoh, I believe kills, as do rebreathers. People can dive how they want, and will continue to do so. My point is that we will continue to have fatalities when there shouldn't be.

I'm not going to sit here and reply to everyone line by line.

My entire point (which everyone is more than welcome to disagree with) is that it seems like people are no longer learning from the mistakes of others. Sheck made a lot of headway in reducing cave fatalities by looking at common issues. Props. But it shouldn't stop there. Sheck himself died breaking his own rules.

Take a look at the deaths we've had in the past few years, and look at what they all have in common. Solo, SM, RB, and/or deep air is a real common theme.